Thread #36
Anonymous said...
Jeff said...
You are absolutely right. The NTCC leadership wanted us to literally, blindly trust that they were investing money in all the areas that God would have them to. There was always much secrecy concerning the handling of finances throughout the NTCC. What I want to know is why should any of us have trusted the NTCC leadership? The NTCC leadership doesn't even trust their own pastors, and they prove that they don't, with the way they handle the church escrow accounts. The church pastor can deposit money into the escrow accounts, but only certain leaders in Graham have the signature authority to make any withdraws from the escrow accounts. Once the money is put into the escrow accounts by the local pastor, that same local pastor no longer has any control what so ever, over what is done with that money.
The leadership in Graham teaches that the escrow account is handled that way to protect NTCC Incorporated from a potential renegade pastor who might decide to leave his church with all the money. Ok that is great, but what protection does the local NTCC churches have that guarantees that the NTCC leadership in Graham won't take that money, and do what ever they want with it? There is no financial protection setup for the local NTCC churches what so ever. The local church folks just simply have to trust that RWD, Kekel, Olson and the rest of the NTCC leaders will do the right thing with that escrow money. Well buddy I don't trust them no more then they trust their OWN PASTORS!!!
Did everyone know that it is a common NTCC practice for the NTCC leadership to take every dime of the escrow money when an NTCC pastor leaves a location and is replaced by another NTCC pastor. Did you know that it is common for the NTCC leadership to leave the incoming NTCC pastor with a zero balance in an escrow that was previously loaded with money? That is right, and it has been confirmed by MANY NTCC pastors. Not only that but sometimes the money has never been restored to the location where the money was taken from. I have been told exactly that by three different NTCC pastors and one of them said that it happened to quite a few others. The NTCC pastor would leave $10,000, $20,000 or even close to $40,000 in the escrow account, and when the new pastor arrived the account showed 0 - zero. That is a fact and Vic Johanson asked RWD to his face when the $10,000 would be restored to the church in Fairbanks Alaska and to the best of my recollection RWDs response to Vic was; "When the time is right". Am I right Vic? Well the time was right the minute the new pastor took over at the same location and that is the way I see it; period. The accounts never should have been zeroed from the start and no excuse or justification that the NTCC could possibly give is acceptable. It's flat out crookery.
Now I know that the NTCC will give the example of how they took the escrow money from the church down in New Orleans when the hurricane hit, and let the pastor use it to help get a new church started. I wonder how much money the NTCC received from the insurance company for the church building that was probably rendered a total loss because of the hurricane? The escrow money was probably a drop in the bucket in comparison to what the NTCC received from property insurance. The NTCC always wants to be able to say how great they were when they do one thing that is right, like that makes up for all the stuff that they do which is wrong. No matter what the case, that occurrence still doesn't justify why the NTCC has cleared out so many other escrow accounts and left zero balances for the incoming pastors.
Have you ever thought it to be strange why NTCC pastors aren't supposed to discuss financial matters with each other when they replace each other? Because the NTCC doesn't want the incoming NTCC pastor to know how much money was left by the person he replaced? Why do NTCC pastors have to essentially pay rent on a building that the NTCC corporation has already purchased in full? Can you imagine how much escrow money some of these churches accumulate over the years? Tens and hundreds of thousands so why in the world would the same church have to pay rent on a building that was purchased for church? I will tell you why. Because it is just another part of RWDs money making scheme. Just like his rental houses in Graham that you have to give him cash for when you make your payment? RWD and the NTCC has more money coming in from more angles than you can even imagine. The NTCC has the money coming in that you pay to attend a non-accredited school, where the transcript that you receive says right on it that the school is worth NOTHING if you ever decide to leave the NTCC, and frankly it is worth nothing if you are still in the NTCC.
Folks RWD, Olson, Defrancesco, and Kekel have you guys so duped that it is unbelievable. You don't have to worry about true stewardship if you are in the NTCC unless you are one of a select few. You don't have to worry about being stewards of the real money because RWD, Kekel, Defrancesco, and Olson have that taken care of, and you have no choice but to let them take care of it the minute you open one of their sorry escrow accounts, which is set up to only allow them to withdraw the money.
Jeff
91 comments:
Jeff,
Out of all the sound logic of this post, the thing that really jumped out at me was the insurance angle for the New Orleans (N.O.) church.
All of the state side churches (not store fronts) that NTCC owns are insured under their group 'property insurance plan.' So the insurance money NTCC received for the destruction of the N.O church should have been given to Rev. Crain to start over, so he could also keep his escrow money on the books, untouched. The insurance money belonged to this church, some of his people even followed him when he left N.O.
Though an NTCC insurance policy, Rev. Crain was the one making the payments to Graham for this coverage.
It is sometimes unnerving when the realization of how twisted and low NTCC's decisions are, hits. It is very disturbing to me that new shocking revelations are still being uncovered.
Also, since NTCC teaches God will take care of you, so don't get life or health insurance....Why don't they follow their own 'policy' and keep everything uninsured. Don't they trust God will take care of them? Is property more important than people?
pdq
"Is property more important than people?"
To NTCC, Yes.
PDQ,
A very interesting post. Here is my, like Sis Dawn states, 0.02$ worth.
WHY don't NTCC members follow their leaders?
IF Grant can go to a Private school, then SO CAN YOUR KIDS, NTCC
members!
That $50.00 a month you use to pledge towards world missions? Use it to invest in YOUR future - your KIDS and send them to a private school!
Sure, you probably cannot afford a private school that costs 20K a year, but there are some good ones out there.
Why a private school, anyway? Why not send Grant to a public school and use that 20K a year Mr Kekel to "Give Back" to NTCC members.
How about a 20K Scholarship to a deserving and faithful Churchgoer's son or daughter?
There is a public school near where I work in which the MILLIONAIRES have no problem sending their kids to a PUBLIC school. They can probably make money doing it that way and deduct their kids' attendance come tax time.
Trade in your junker car and get a luxury vehicle!! You don't have to own it, just lease it, just like Kekel does. Again, follow your leaders, NTCC members. If Kekel can have a nice car, then SO CAN YOU!!!
While your at it, go ahead and install a pool in your backyard. If Sis Kinson can have a pool, SO CAN YOU!!!
Invite other sisters to come clean up your house, and promise them the blessings of heaven if they do. If TANYA KEKEL can do it, then SO CAN YOU!!!
Why deprive your son and daughter of a well rounded education? If Grant can play football, then, by the beard of Zeus, SO CAN YOU AND YOUR KIDS!!!
This is most effective if you are a song leader that the preacher DEPENDS upon. Take a Sunday off. If Kekel can take a vacation then SO CAN YOU!!!
If the leadership can do it, then who am I to deprive myself of the same God given rights and privileges that the elite enjoy??
If they can do it, then SO CAN YOU!!!
Note to NTCC members: Grant has now graduated from high school. Washington University is going to cost anywhere between 30K to 60K per YEAR. Get ready to give extra like you have never given before! We have to take care of the Man of God's son.
But, before you take care of him, pay yourself first. It is the NTCC way!!!
Bro Johnson
Mark: Hows it going? Short comment but sweet. I think it may have been you who referred to the NTCC as real estate holding company. Well that's about the size of it and that is for sure.
Good to hear from you.
Jeff
Hello Jeff,
I've been out here for some time now, But just haven't posted.
I would like to claim originality for the statement "NTCC holdings company" but I do believe that honor goes to Marc Perez. I haven't heard anything from him out here in awhile. I hope he is OK. Later, Mark
NTCC members,
You live below your means. Do you not know that you are "sons of God" and that King Jesus does not want you to live like a slave? You live below your priviliges in NTCC. You live in a slave world.
The last time I checked, Price Harry enjoys the same rights and special entitlements that Price Charles and Lady Camille does.
So, what is going on, NTCC members? I am CHALLENGING you to live above the poverty level. Your all SLAVES of NTCC, Inc.
Quit living below your means. NTCC has turned the Father's house into a den of thieves.
NTCC members, I CHALLENGE you to question your leadership. Can you really trust them with your money? I know it stinks when the Preacher and his wife go out on the town eating your HARD EARNED money while you cannot even afford to take your wife and three kids out. After NTCC services, your too embarrased to stick around so you leave QUITELY.
You lie, lie, and lie some more. The conversation always goes like this. The pastor asks you "Are you going out to eat with us, brother??" Then you say (actually you lie), "No Sir, my wife is not feeling good and the kids have school tomorrow and ....."
So the preacher goes to Red Lobster while you eat OUT OF CANS. Prove me wrong, NTCC members! For many of you, this is REALITY!!!!!
I know because it was for me!!!
It happened many times, and the Man of God should have been ashamed.
Bro Johnson
what i think will be very interesting is when and if the holy spirit ever touches the conscience of one of the "higher ups"
it seems that PDQ was very high ranking and has a ton of insider information
but what if say...difrancesco or johnson or kinson actually was touched by the holy spirit and couldnt live the lie any longer, that would get very interesting
because these are the men, specifically difrancesco who are really seeing the corruption and willingly hiding it
unless his conscience is seared as with a hot iron as the bible says he must have those nights when he lies awake and is tormented by the guilt and questions of what true integrity look like
it just makes me wonder.....like perhaps with rev ohlson and his wife knowing the truth about the whole deal
i wonder how tormented she is being trapped in this organization knowing that her husband has allowed himself thru fear to become nothing more than a cowardly yes man who hides corruption to the best of his ability
im not trying to be overly harsh here
i can understand the tremendous amount of faith it takes to actually move in corelation with your conscience, it produces a battle from hell and it would seem as if there very lives were falling apart
so,, it is much easier to continue on in willing ignorance and a life of luxury and put of thinking of the biblical terms like:
outer darkness
lake of fire
"i never knew you"
weeping and gnashing of teeth
oh, those terms are for "sinners" not me, i am holiness, and im just obeying the man of God
repent or you will all likewise perish
sincerely,
t
kind of reminds me of the story about the rich man and the poor beggar lazarous
T,
I can say with assuredly that PDQ was one and is still one of the brightest, intellectual pastors I have ever met.
I am not saying this to eat cheese, either.
He has a gifted intellect, he has an incredible vocabulary, Lord knows I need to study more so I can use some big words.
As far as position? I have my ideas but it is only fair to have the Reverend speak for himself.
He's the real deal, he is for real.
May God bless you in your travels, PDQ!!!
Bro Johnson
Apparently the org. just a bought a church for the Crain's congregation there in Memphis where he relocated after the hurracaine. I don't know how it was worked out but the last I heard they bought this property cash.
Hello Mark,
Good to see you here. I don't post a lot but the reading is interesting. Give me a call.
Anonymous wrote...
"Apparently the org. just a bought a church for the Crain's congregation there in Memphis"
Jeff said...
Sure they did. That is no surprise. I suspect that Crain and his church members will pay the equivalent of rent on it also, directly to Graham.
You see I understand why the NTCC zero's out accounts. First they don't want the incoming pastor to see all that money and decide to take his ease. There has to be a desperate financial need created and what better way to do that than to zero out the escrow, because in doing that you create the impression that NO BACKUP funds exist.
They also want the local congregation to continuing paying for the building even after it is purchased with cash. When the local pastor himself believes that there was no substantial amount of money in escrow to speak of when he took over, he now feels it is his duty to continue paying for a building that has already been paid for in full.
The pastor is made to feel that he and his church members are actually cheating the NTCC if they don't essentially pay rent on the building. They feel that way because they feel that they weren't the ones who paid for it in the first place and if it weren't for the GREAT and WONDERFUL NTCC INC, they wouldn't even have there own building to worship in. The fact is it is not their own building at all, because if the pastor leaves the NTCC with his church members, the building remains property of the NTCC and the church has to start all over again with not one red cent of escrow because Graham zero's it out. THEY GOT YA!!!!!!
It also creates a dependence on NTCC INC. The local pastors believe that they would never have been able to purchase the building if it weren't for the NTCC INC, and as a result they feel indebted to the organization.
The reality is that many of these locations have been sending money to St Louis as it were, or to Graham for decades and most of these buildings have likely been paid for twice over. You see RWD has concocted a scheme to build a real estate empire, and even after the buildings are paid for, devise a way to motivate pastors to continually and perpetually pay for the property that was paid for in full in the beginning.
He and his cohorts have created a constant money flow that will never end. Just like the Catholic Church. If a church shuts down, the NTCC zero's out the escrow, when pastors do a change over the NTCC zero's out the escrow. At least that is what they did to the pastors that I have heard from.
That is why I have been saying all along that the NTCC pastors should break away from the NTCC and do their own thing like RWD did years ago. My own family has financial needs without pumping yet even more money into RWD and Kekels empire. I blind man can clearly see who is benefiting from the NTCCs money making scheme.
I challenge anyone to name me one other person that you know of in the NTCC who has houses or property that even compares to that of Kekel or RWD? Name ONE? Name one other person who has been gifted even close to 40 acres of land by the NTCC other than Kekel? If you can't see this picture clearly, you NTCC folks are deliberately blind and it is good for you when you keep pumping money into Grant Kekels education just to watch your kids go without.
Get you some of that!!!
Jeff
Wow! Where to start…
This particular thread is absolutely full of ignorant exntccer jargon and disingenuousness. I know Jeff will probably delete this post, but it will be instructive for me to go through all of the posts where insinuations and outright lies, (yes Jeff, there are people here telling lies), are told without restraint and posted here with no evidence because there is none to procure. So, here we go:
1.Most of the “bums” on the street are there by choice. You don’t help, you only hurt them when you give them money. They are there because they can make a living doing what they do. There are places they can go to get help if they sincerely need it.
2.Many of you don’t believe that any of your money belongs to God, which is true for the majority of you. Someone who is not a child of God isn’t required to give anything to God, with the exception that eventually, their life will be required of them one way or the other.
3.Should none of the Christian’s money go to the work of the Lord? Read I. Corinthians 9. How should God’s preachers be taken care of? If someone gives to the work of the Lord and it is misused, the misuse is on the hands of the person who receives the money. The Christian did their part and God will bless them for it.
4.Concerning the charge that it is a common practice for an escrow account to be “zeroed” when the pastor is replaced, I am not privy to any such activity. Again, the handling of the money that is dedicated to the work of the Lord has to be answered to God by those who handle it.
5.You wonder how much money was received from the insurance company for the church in New Orleans. Why? You never paid an insurance bill. That church building was sold. Do you also wonder how much it sold for? It belonged to the organization. You need to stop questioning things you know nothing about.
6.I’m not sure if pdq is insinuating that none of that insurance money went to Rev. Crain. You’re on thin ice there pdq. Also, the truth is, ( you can say what you want Jeff, pdq is a liar concerning this), Pastor Davis said in class that if you have to go to the hospital and you can’t pay your bills, that’s what you have insurance for. Keep lying pdq.
Seeing through exntccer lies
Part Two...
7.Mark G. just flat out lied.
8. Bro. Johnson, who was ever discouraged from sending their kids to private school? Maybe someone was, in wisdom in some individual circumstance because they really couldn’t afford it. Also, you know better than that; We were never allowed to give more than $5.00 a month to world missions. That statement about “give back” is totally presumptuous and assumes that the money Rev. Kekel has saved belongs to members of the NTCC churches. And who are you to dictate what someone does with their own money? Don’t make foolish statements about tax deductions you don’t know anything about. It’s really getting thick when you claim you can tell a car is leased by looking at it. Actually, I doubt you have ever seen it, just heard about it. My, you are good. Lie after lie, Johnson, you are really getting deep. A pool in the back yard of Rev. Kinson? Anyone can do whatever they want. Just realize there are consequences to all your actions. Take a vacation let your child play sports, whatever. There will be no special offerings taken up to pay for Grant’s education, guaranteed. Stop the lies!
9. Johnson! Wake up! Everyone who uses wisdom lives below their means. If you live above your means, you end up in debt way over your head and in a whole lot of trouble. So your explanation of not going out to eat and fellowship with the rest of the church makes more sense now. Thanks for that clarification. You are the one who should be ashamed, liar!
10. t bases his comments on the assumption that all these things are true. Go ahead t, believe the lies.
11. Bro. Johnson, you meant to say, God bless you and your lies PDQ! No need to thank me for that correction of your typo.
12. I don’t know where you get your information anonymous, but apparently you don’t have a clue how the buying of churches occurs and are therefore helping to propagate lies. The organization buys the property and holds the deed. The local church pays the mortgage to the organization until it is paid off.
Seeing through exntccer lies
Continuation of lies…
Because of his own misuse of money and heart problems, Jeff can’t see that he himself continues to carry on the lies without regard to the fact he has nothing to base it on. Not one shred of evidence that any of what he says is true. He has no way of knowing what is actually going on behind the scenes of running the organizations finances and yet he carries on as if he did. You get the impression while reading Jeff’s comments that he has inside information into how the organization’s books are kept. This is just what Jeff wants, so that he can stir you up even more to be angry at NTCC. There is nothing genuine or edifying about what Jeff writes. He only wants you to completely dispense with seeking the truth about how things are really done and believe what he says without questioning.
Seeing through exntccer lies
Jeff, the anti communist, benevolent dictator, will not delete these remarks because that is what Rev. Kekel will do. But not on this blog, because here it is free speech to everyone. Oops! Except when you expose the people posting here who are allowed to run on about NTCC without being checked for their disingenuousness.
Seeing through exntccer lies
Anonymous / Seeing through exNTCCer lies:
Now it is time for me to pick your statements apart. I will return to do exactly that as soon as I finish eating lunch. By the way; your ignorant.
Jeff
Jeff said,
I challenge anyone to name me one other person that you know of in the NTCC who has houses or property that even compares to that of Kekel or RWD? Name ONE? Name one other person who has been gifted even close to 40 acres of land by the NTCC other than Kekel? If you can't see this picture clearly, you NTCC folks are deliberately blind and it is good for you when you keep pumping money into Grant Kekels education just to watch your kids go without.
Most holy Jeff… The gracious…
May I ask you a question your highest? Can you name me one person who has done more or worked harder at building or been willing to do more for this organization than Rev. Kekel? Last I checked, all that is required of me to give TO GOD, is tithe and offering. THE REST IS MINE TO DO WHAT I WANT WITH! If I can’t budget what is left well enough that my kids don’t go without, I have no business dealing with money. Besides the fact that as you give to God the way the Bible says, you are blessed. Thank you for considering my questions most kind and gracious Jeff.
Seeing through exntccer lies
Jeff said…
“By the way; your ignorant.”
No I’m not, you are.
We could go on all day with this sort of childishness!
Seeing through exntccer lies
Jeff said:
You are ignorant and I am in the process of proving it as we speak. So please take a deep breath and relax for a moment because it is obvious that your are getting ready to blow a gasket like so many NTCC pastors who act like children behind the pulpit and throw temper tantrums and scream and holler when they don't get their way. Just relax and try real hard to realize that it is OK if you stop posting long enough for me to reply.
Thank you,
Jeff
Seer of Ex- NTCCers,
I believe in paying tithes and offerings. However, the Bible requires that we are a good steward of finances. All we are asking is NTCC to have full financial disclosure. I would like to know where every dollar is going that I give, so I can pray to God with a clear conscience. If I miss paying tithe and offering, the Pastor most definitely would ask me where my money is going, and might even offer to do a budget with me least I be out of the will of God(I have seen it happen!)
Lack of financial disclosure is why Rev. Dennis got away with what he did. Its going to happen again, and again, and again....
Anon!
exposer,
you make a lot of statements but you have absolutely nothing to back them up.
all your doing is bashing us, could you please be a little more logical and give me/us something to chew on?
maybe your just a little peon in the church and you really dont know anything, thats ok....but please listen to people like pdq who have dedicated 1/2 their lives to this organization
as far as your 10% going to kekel...oh..i l mean "god" times that by 160 ministers and dont forget to add in the people who go to the various churches
as far as the land "gifting" goes, do you think it appropriate to take $400,000.00 worth of property from an organization and give it to an individual? it is actually illegal, have you considered looking into it?
do you live in one of the dorms? do they accept your personal check? why not?
use your brain and not your emotions, christianity is a thinking mans religion!!!
start thinking before its too late
the odds are your not going to marry the right person or find enough favor with the higher ups to ever live the way you want to live
i have been there.....they make everyone feel like, "i can be that Joshua" i can be blessed"
use your brain and get real
t
Most ignorant said...
name me one person who has done more or worked harder at building or been willing to do more for this organization than Rev. Kekel?
LTravis said...
It is very easy to build when everything is handed to you. Can you be more specific when you say work hard at building? It reminds me of someone who walks on a job site that is 99% completed and drives the last nail in then stands back and says look what I have done.
by the way,
my brother told me today that davis was preaching last night and said he was getting death threats from people on the blog
jeff is that you??
just kidding
he is either being lied too by his little boys or he is trying to make himself into some kind of a martyr
just so you all know!
would anyone who was there care to clarify?
t
NTCC loyalist wrote:
1.Most of the “bums” on the street are there by choice. You don’t help, you only hurt them when you give them money. They are there because they can make a living doing what they do. There are places they can go to get help if they sincerely need it.
Jeff replied: It is obvious that was yet another one of your ignorant statements because you failed consider that the national unemployment rate is nearing 10% and the fact is, when it was 5% millions were out of work. Many bums worked for a living and had very good jobs before a serious degradation in the US economy which forced them out of work. The NTCC doesn't believe in helping out folks who are less fortunate but the very scripture that the NTCC wrongfully uses in their doctrinal statement to support tithing has nothing to do with tithing. 1Cor 16:2 has to do with taking up a collection for the less fortunate so now who is the liar. Your sorry NTCC leaders who falsely sited that scripture in their doctrinal statement because it has nothing to do with tithing but it has to do with giving to charity thank you.
Next one.
Jeff
NTCC loyalist wrote:
2.Many of you don’t believe that any of your money belongs to God, which is true for the majority of you. Someone who is not a child of God isn’t required to give anything to God, with the exception that eventually, their life will be required of them one way or the other.
Jeff replied:
Many of you NTCC pastors don't believe that your money belongs to God either. I have witnessed three NTCC pastors start to go crazy behind the pulpit just as soon as the money pit started to dry up and they immediately lost faith in God and that was evidenced by their outbursts of rage directed at their church members to give more money. My money may belong to God but it certainly doesn't belong to some greedy NTCC pastor no more than his money belongs to me? Checkmate Mr. Ignorant!
Man your statement was baseless and ignorant.
That was easy.
Jeff
NTCC loyalist said...
3.Should none of the Christian’s money go to the work of the Lord? Read I. Corinthians 9. How should God’s preachers be taken care of? If someone gives to the work of the Lord and it is misused, the misuse is on the hands of the person who receives the money. The Christian did their part and God will bless them for it.
Jeff said...
I will make this one short. The book of Acts shows that Christians money first went to other Christians who were less fortunate and that is certainly not a practice in the NTCC because RWD is greedy. 1Cor 16 and Romans 15 taught the same thing. Now to give money to the work of the Lord means that one first has to believe that it IS A WORK OF THE LORD that his money is going to, to begin with. I no longer see the NTCC program as a work of the Lord so therefor I am not giving a dime to it. You made an assumption that I don't agree with NTCC loyalist. You assumed wrongfully that the NTCC work is a work of the Lord. You and I will not agree on that so your point was based on speculation not fact and that is a fact.
Jeff.
i wonder how tormented she is being trapped in this organization knowing that her husband has allowed himself thru fear to become nothing more than a cowardly yes man who hides corruption to the best of his ability
t,said
Samething that happens in the Mob. A man is caught in the trap. He got in for the MONEY. But then his concious starts to get the best of him. He wants out. But can not without losing his life. So he stays and is unhappy. But can not nothing about it. the upper so called leaders in ntcc. Are trapped and stay. They got it good. I wonder how they feel about the misery they have caused.
And when those like Sis. Olson try and share the truth. Are bashed like a lower minister's wife would get trashed over the pulpit. Sure that made her feel good. To be humilated in front of the entire conregation. Made sure she was brought down . RW loves to keep women in there place. And remember your opinion is just that,AN OPINION. Rw's words!
CM
NTCC loyalist wrote:
4.Concerning the charge that it is a common practice for an escrow account to be “zeroed” when the pastor is replaced, I am not privy to any such activity. Again, the handling of the money that is dedicated to the work of the Lord has to be answered to God by those who handle it.
Jeff replied...
You're right. You are ignorantly not privy to such activity because you are willfully ignorant. The practice is a fact and it exists.
Do you know what the word ignorant means? For you to not be privy to this NTCC practice means that is exactly what you are; IGNORANT and willfully so. Oh I almost forgot. We are supposed to be lying about the zeroing out of escrow accounts. Well you are wrong about that because I have heard the same thing from THREE different NTCC pastors.
Jeff
NTCC loyalist wrote:
5.You wonder how much money was received from the insurance company for the church in New Orleans. Why? You never paid an insurance bill. That church building was sold. Do you also wonder how much it sold for? It belonged to the organization. You need to stop questioning things you know nothing about.
Jeff replied...
First to intellegently respond to my statement you must practice the art of reading my statement thoroughly. I wrote: "I wonder how much money the NTCC received from the insurance company for the church building that was probably rendered a total loss" The key word here is "probably". I saw a picture of the church building after the hurricane and there was damage done to the building for a fact. You mean to tell me that the NTCC didn't file any insurance claim to recover damages done to the building? Please!!! Get real!! I'm sure they did. And if you are correct and they did sell the building than they had the insurance money and the money from the sold building in addition to the escrow money which is essentially what I said in the beginning.
Boy you are really striking out here. I am not even trying hard.
Jeff
NTCC loyalist said...
6.I’m not sure if pdq is insinuating that none of that insurance money went to Rev. Crain. You’re on thin ice there pdq. Also, the truth is, ( you can say what you want Jeff, pdq is a liar concerning this), Pastor Davis said in class that if you have to go to the hospital and you can’t pay your bills, that’s what you have insurance for. Keep lying pdq.
Jeff said...
Who are you mister Anonymous to even suggest that pdq is on quote "thin ice". You sound like a sorry leader to me that likes to make threats? I don't know what money went to Crain but I will bet that Crain has to send a substantial amount of money back which is once again exactly the point that I was making in the first place.
I have to get ready for work so I might do a couple more.
Jeff
NTCC loyalist liar wrote:
Because of his own misuse of money and heart problems, Jeff can’t see that he himself continues to carry on the lies without regard to the fact he has nothing to base it on. Not one shred of evidence that any of what he says is true. He has no way of knowing what is actually going on behind the scenes of running the organizations finances and yet he carries on as if he did. You get the impression while reading Jeff’s comments that he has inside information into how the organization’s books are kept. This is just what Jeff wants, so that he can stir you up even more to be angry at NTCC. There is nothing genuine or edifying about what Jeff writes. He only wants you to completely dispense with seeking the truth about how things are really done and believe what he says without questioning.
Jeff said...
First you can know very little about the way I handle my finances because I have not missed paying a single bill in close to 15 years. I have a Toyota Corolla that has been paid off for years and years and another vehicle that I pay a very low payment on. So where do you get your lies from. Some uniformed NTCC pastor that I used to have the displeasure of being associated with? Being that I have been out of the NTCC for over a year you can't have a clue what my actual financial situation is. I have a good job and a retirement and a nice house and I'm quite confident that I outright own more property than the majority of NTCC ministers by far.
By the way everything I write is based on FACTS so it's you who is a liar.
Jeff
Anonymous (who must never have been a Pastor in NTCC) said…“6.I’m not sure if pdq is insinuating that none of that insurance money went to Rev. Crain. You’re on thin ice there pdq. Also, the truth is, (you can say what you want Jeff, pdq is a liar concerning this), Pastor Davis said in class that if you have to go to the hospital and you can’t pay your bills, that’s what you have insurance for. Keep lying pdq.”
If you would go back and read my post you commented on, you would realize I was relating what should have been done, not what was done, therefore not insinuating anything.
You mention in your point 5, which was not directed at me, “That church building was sold.” This is new information. We were all told in conference that the Church in N.O. was wiped out/destroyed.
It is good to hear Pastor Davis has changed his prior decades long ‘policy’ of not allowing any of those that actually applied what he taught to get health and life insurance. When was this changed? As recently as two years ago this was still in effect. But, according to NTCC’s ‘policy’ we can not receive your witness, because you are not even one witness, being anonymous. Since you claim this is what Pastor Davis is now teaching, did you know about the recent prohibition against health and life insurance?
I have commented on many other things here, so feel free to take a crack at those also. E.g. Church finances, world missions, Rev. Kekel’s finances and possessions, women working outside the home, Rev. Kekel's pedophilia, Pastor Davis recurring gluttony, Pastor Davis’ teachings on personal finance, the NTCC Minister’s poverty, enlisting in the Military, attending NTCC is a job, etc. I have supported everything I have written.
And why would you encourage sin in a person’s life by telling them too lie? I seem to remember encouraging sin in a person’s life being a sin, according to the Bible. You also falsely accuse me by calling me a liar…I seem to remember false acusations also being a sin, according to the Bible.
The rest of your insight about the information on this blog is invaluable, keep contributing, and definitely keep coming back. Your message is loud and clear. You’re winning.
Yours In Him,
pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....
...death threats!!??? wow they are digging deep !
Anon!
I agree Anon!!
Heather M.
1.Most of the “bums” on the street are there by choice. You don’t help, you only hurt them when you give them money. They are there because they can make a living doing what they do. There are places they can go to get help if they sincerely need it.
WOW, Leave it to NTCC to JUDGE the homeless. Thats SAD...
god forbid that the money go to someone who needs a sandwich or maybe a 40
and not going to pay down kekels mortgage (if he has one)
Seeing through exntccer lies
or, STEAL, sorry: S.T.E.L.
You lovingly stated
"Most holy Jeff… The gracious…
May I ask you a question your highest? Can you name me one person who has done more or worked harder at building or been willing to do more for this organization than Rev. Kekel?"
I can name one already at the top of my head: Rev J.C. MacDonald, whom Kekel states "Has a heart of Gold".
This man has done more for God in one year under the NTCC flag than Kekel has ever done..
He has mostly been overseas as a missionary working with NOTHING and making something out of it.
Kekel has not done this. Kekel has never been a missionary. Kekel has had everything handed to him on a silver plator. He married into the NTCC elite and he knows it. He owes his wealth from NTCC tithe paying members and he knows it.
Come on, S.T.E.L., you should know better than that.
Will Kekel pay 20K a year for your son or daughter to go to a Private School so he can play football in his tighty whities? I think not.
Surely you cannot deny Kekel's daughter, I mean - wife - Tanya having other ladies over cleaning HER house!!
Go check it out sometime.
You'll be surprised!!
Bro Johnson
"Most holy Jeff… The gracious…
May I ask you a question your highest? Can you name me one person who has done more or worked harder at building or been willing to do more for this organization than Rev. Kekel?"
I can do better than that...I can name 2! Rev. Reed and Rev.Devonshire
I don't agree with some of thier tactics, but I have seen their works as soul- winners and Pastors. I have never...NEVER seen their wives insult or put any one down....or gossip about anyone.
1.Most of the “bums” on the street are there by choice. You don’t help, you only hurt them when you give them money. They are there because they can make a living doing what they do. There are places they can go to get help if they sincerely need it.
Here is a TRUE story. While stuck in ntcc.
Was at the work that RW picked for us. Slaving aeay and getting now where fast. Folks were pretty smart in the city we slaved in. Could see what a joke ntcc and there beliefs are. And stay away. Living in a fairly expensive city. Rent is high,cost of living was high. So we are there on One income with four of us. Paying the Church rent,our own rent and utilities,health insurance when we could afford it,car payment(our old vechile died) and daily living expense's. We did splurge now and then. Which was rarely,who could afford any fun!
Was only getting worse and worse for us. Had to attend what was Mandatory then conference's. Which put us even further behind. Had to use those check advancement loans. Put us in the hole further.
It got to the point my DH was working three jobs! He was going on very little sleep!
Got to the point where we missed one rent payment. And was about to get evicted. They took our van,to many missed or half payments. Did what we could on that. Within one week,we were almost homeless and had no vechile. And the job my DH had was trying to make him quit. So they could hire cheaper labor. He started looking for a waitor job. He got to his breaking point. Quit the job and sold our mobile home. Only way we made it was from in-laws help. Which they lorded that over us.
So when someone that is so stupid and thinks it is a person's fault. How was that our fault. My husband worked. And it was stacked against us. We did use the food banks. But DH is to proud to get foodstamps,or financial assistance. Mainly because rw said that allowing God to bless you.
Many of those place's that do help homeless are full. Once a person is homeless it does become more difficult to go to a job interview with dirty cloths,no wheels,no reference's.
I think someone can get off there high horse. Because they have no knowledge of what they speak of. Just a speaking head for rw. What is fed to them,they spit out! Hard to use there brain when it is fogged. There decision making is all based on what makes rw or mike K. happy.
Oh and if this person wants to find fault because we did have a vechile payment. We had NO one to depend on for ride's. And yes,we did use the bus for a while. Picture this,big box of Church stuff and the four of us in Church cloths.
Now that van was taken and our credit is ruined. Still have to pay the van off.
CM
Anonymous said...
"Most holy Jeff… The gracious…
May I ask you a question your highest? Can you name me one person who has done more or worked harder at building or been willing to do more for this organization than Rev. Kekel?"
Rev.Reed, Rev.Devonshire,
Rev.J.C. MacDonald,Rev.Gaylord.
So far that's 4.
Rev. Mederano
Rev. Rodriguies(Panama one)
Actually most of the ministers in ntcc. Do ALOT more then Mike K. does for the Organization. Wow,he runs a choir. Wow,he sits in a office. DOing what?? Both him and his wife are good at pretending to be sooo busy. that they have to get help from others to clean there home,wash there vechile's,weed there flower beds,shine his shoe's,do Tanya's grocery shopping.
A big SCAM!
Actually most of the ministers in ntcc Do ALOT more then Mike K. does for the Organization.
AMEN TO THAT!!!! That is SOOO true : )
S.T.E.L.,
You lovingly stated
"8. Bro. Johnson, who was ever discouraged from sending their kids to private school? Maybe someone was, in wisdom in some individual circumstance because they really couldn’t afford it.
I am telling you right now, S.T.E.L., that there is NO WAY Kekel cannot really afford this.
HOW can he afford to send his son Grant to a 20K a year private high school. Not on tithes and offerings alone.
I am not condeeming him from sending his son Grant to the best school money can buy, I am questioning WHERE DOES HE GET THE MONEY TO DO IT????
It's all about location, location, location...
And, why a private school? Why doesn't Kekel really show that he can have empathy with his struggling church goers and send Grant to a public school??
He publicly declares the private. He has no shame in stating that.
S.T.E.L.,
You state
"Also, you know better than that; We were never allowed to give more than $5.00 a month to world missions".
OK, I admit if I made a mistake. Did I say $50.00? OK, I screwed up on that one. One decimal point off. Did I ever tell you that I used to DOUBLE tithe??? Money is money, unless your the NTCC elite.
You stated,
"That statement about “give back” is totally presumptuous and assumes that the money Rev. Kekel has saved belongs to members of the NTCC churches".
Your opinion which is like a bellybutton, everybody has them. NTCC SHOULD give back to the people. The people are the ones who make Kekel, Davis, Gandy, and others rich. That is my opinion
And who are you to dictate what someone does with their own money?
Again, your opinion. If I pay into the NTCC corporation, because it IS a corporation, is it not, I SHOULD HAVE SOME SAY upon where the finances go.
Don’t make foolish statements about tax deductions you don’t know anything about. It’s really getting thick when you claim you can tell a car is leased by looking at it.
Do me a favor. Ask Rev Kekel for me just to confirm what I already know. It is a win - win situation for me. Here is why: If he says Yes, I was correct. If he says no, then he PAID IN FULL 30 - 50 K. Again, where did this money come from? You cannot say just tithes and offerings.
PDQ, could you please repost your most excellent article you wrote so S.T.E.L. can understand on where the Kekel finances go? You had it down to the cent on everything. A little enlightenment, please Sir!
S.T.E.L. your right. I should not make foolish statements about tax deductions. I will give that one to you. What do I know? I have only been asking NTCC Preachers forever how to deduct my tithes and offerings that I used to give to the church, which was many thousands of dollars.
More to follow,
Bro Johnson
S.T.E.L.,
NTCC ministers are in the dark too, as NO ONE EVER COULD PRODUCE RECEIPTS SHOWING THE TITHE I PAID!!! Can you please educate the NTCC ministers you know, so they will not be in the dark as I was?? Thank you!!
Actually, S.T.E.L., we do not really own anything, we are just good stewards of what God has decided to entrust us with, as He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, it's all God's anyway.
Just as Davis cannot take his 100K RV with him when he dies, I cannot take my 8K SUV with me to heaven when I die, either!!
S.T.E.L., your making me blush. You proudly proclaimed to everyone in this blog that,
"Actually, I doubt you have ever seen it, just heard about it. My, you are good. Lie after lie, Johnson, you are really getting deep."
Please, S.T.E.L., you know flattery is a sin!!
Then you state,
"A pool in the back yard of Rev. Kinson? Anyone can do whatever they want.
I agree with you there, S.T.E.L. NTCC does do whatever they want, without fear of reprisal.
"Just realize there are consequences to all your actions".
I already know that, thanks. I am 38 years old, I think I understand that.
"Take a vacation let your child play sports, whatever".
Whatever? Kekel goes to a Bluegrass festival. Whatever. Kekel has other women over at his house doing free maid service. Whatever. If we do that (the congregartion), we will be blasted from the pulpit and you know it.
There will be no special offerings taken up to pay for Grant’s education, guaranteed".
There are no guarantees in life, only death and taxes.
Kekel does not need a special offering. He takes what he wants, and wants what he takes. Go ahead. Tell him I, Bro Johnson, want to know, he knows who I am, where does he get the MONEY???
"Stop the lies"!
That is why this blog was created, to inform people of NTCC lies.
9. "Johnson! Wake up! Everyone who uses wisdom lives below their means".
Then what your telling me is that Kekel and Davis have no wisdom. Got it. They do NOT live below their means. 20K for high school for Grant?? Give me a break!!
"If you live above your means, you end up in debt way over your head and in a whole lot of trouble. So your explanation of not going out to eat and fellowship with the rest of the church makes more sense now".
Exactly, again, go ask Kekel why were escrow accounts of certain churches zero'd out.
"Thanks for that clarification. You are the one who should be ashamed, liar"!
S.T.E.L. your version of a story does not frighten nor intimidate me. You can call me anything you want. I will not stoop to your level.
S.T.E.L., you stated
"11. Bro. Johnson, you meant to say, God bless you and your lies PDQ! No need to thank me for that correction of your typo."
I am not thanking you. I have known PDQ personally for over 4 years overseas and I stand by my testimony. Do YOU know him?
S.T.E.L. you cannot deny the fact that you are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnessess against the abuse of NTCC.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL men are created equal.
We have all been hurt, one way or the other, by the organization known as NTCC.
Education is the key to enlightment. I only ask you open your mind to the FACT that abuse is rampant in NTCC and ongoing.
Bro Johnson
S.T.E.L.
Like some of the others on here have already stated, not all homeless people are bums who put themselves there.
It's hard to just 'get a job' when living on the streets.
We all can afford to give a homeless man or woman a few dollars or even some food or a gift card to Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc.
It can really make all the difference in a homeless person's life. To know that someone out in this crazy worlds still thinks of them as a person, as an individual.
Besides, most of us can easily point out the strung out crack addicts and alcoholic homeless people looking for more $$ to support their habit, then someone who has fallen on hard times.
The Holy Spirit will guide you to do the right thing if you allow it too.
dawn,
i appreciate your sweet spirit and innocence of evil, but you need to understand its not really about the circumstance surrounding the homeless person,
its all about ntcc's greed, they only want you to give to them and only them so they can buy bigger houses and bigger cars and more real estate (for the organization of course)
in times when im thinking in the flesh i wonder why my construction company has to actually pay its employees and give them benefits and pay into unemployment, while ntcc has their employees paying them and providing them with all the extra's
it really is the absolute biggest scam ripoff that has ever existed, to use the name of Jesus and rip off innocent young people, not only stealing their money but ultimately their faith as well
these people will be in the absolute hottest place in hell, not a doubt in my mind
t
i was a little offended when i started reading the few names of those who have done more than kekel as if there are only a select few
in my opinion,
kekel has done the least of everyone in the org....period.
has he ever gone out to start a work?
does he go soul winning?
has he ever had to work a real job to support his church?
has he ever had to mow his own lawn?
has he ever had to help his wife out with household chores? (she has those done for her)
can anyone name one single person he has lead to the lord?
basically he is a professional ministerial leatch
no offense mike,
most unregenerate people would consider your world heaven on earth....so enjoy it now
because it is going to be HOT down there!!!!
sorry,
but i must speak the truth on this matter, for all you liberal minded people who dont believe in eternal judgement
t
Anyone watch the Dr. Phil show this afternoon? It was about the mind control / cult thing.
I wasn't home. Good thing is, is that the show will be re-played in the evening in about a week. Hopefully I remember that time to watch.
Just pulled this off Dr. Phil's website...
"Some say there could be as many as 5,000 religious groups in America preying on the weak and vulnerable, with five to seven million victims and 180,000 new recruits each year. Learn the warning signs of dangerous groups before you become a victim.
Rick Ross is the founder and executive director of the Rick A. Ross Institute, and an expert on cults, controversial groups and movements. He’s been researching cults for 26 years and helps families intervene with victims of destructive cults, and he offers warning signs of dangerous groups and leaders, brainwashing and how to avoid being taken in by mind control.
Tools of Mind Control:
1. Control environment: Loved ones are cut off from family, no communication.
2. Break down sense of self: Break down their sense of self-esteem, literally attack them as individuals on the basis that they are wrong and that the group is right.
3. Instill new sense of identity: New identity is reinforced by the group environment, where you get no feedback except from other members who tell you that they understand the right behavior and the right way of being.
4. Isolate: Cut off from outside world. Fear keeps them trapped inside the environment of the group.
Warning Signs of a Potentially Harmful Group/Leader:
1. Totalitarian: Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. Little tolerance: No place for questions or critical inquiry.
3. Unreasonable fears: Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
4. Never good enough: Followers feel they can never be good enough.
5. No reason to leave: Former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
People Who Are Vulnerable to Mind Control:
Rick says that people who have been brainwashed come from all walks of life, regardless of education, social status, family background and/or intelligence. However, the people who are more vulnerable to mind control are those going through a difficult time in life and/or a transition:
1. Recently divorced
2. Illness
3. Personal tragedy
4. Career failure
5. Away from home for the first time
Warning Signs of a Brainwashed Victim:
1. Obsessive: Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Dependency: Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought, a seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
3. Agrees with group: Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
4. Loss of spontaneity: A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
5. Isolation: Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
How to Avoid Mind Control:
"Don’t be naïve. You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision-making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware," Rick says.
For more information on cults or mind control, visit the Web site of the Rick A. Ross Institute."
Dawn are you saying NTCC is a cult/cult-like?
Nope.
Everyone else on this blog tends to think that way so I thought I would make a post about a bit on Dr. Phil's website.
G'night! :-D
Get a different view of ntcc if you were a minister or minister's wife. No matter what. Church members are treated better then a Bible college student and much better then a minister and his wife. Yes it is a cult!
CM
Dawn,
I guess NTCC is in a league of its own. Alot of those things you listed fit NTCC. I don't too many holiness churches that even come close to what Rick Ross was discussing.
NS
Hey NTCC guy consider this statement.
Warning Signs of a Brainwashed Victim:
1. Obsessive: Extreme obsessive thinking regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
If the shoe fits well you know…
As Rev Davis always says:
"If you don't like it, then there's the door"
"If you have a problem with me then you have a problem with God"
So RWD equates himself as being equal with God. Hey S.T.E.L. what say you???
MLJ
MLJ
..........Crickets..........
Jeff,
I know this my be a rough statement NTCCers...
Perhaps God doesn't bless your financial situation(s) because you choose to give in ignorance. You do not question your leaders even though the truth has been presented. How can God bless the sin of irresponsible stewardship?
If you do not question your
leaders about their financial dealings with GODS MONEY it doesn't make you a good steward. You are just choosing to be a "silent partner" in a corporation.
Anon!
ALL CONCERNED,
Here is the latest from Kekel's blog:
"Dawn posted a comment to the June 4th 'Prayer Request' post regarding an address for Rev. McDaniel Davis and his wife. Rev. Davis assists Rev. DeBlanc in Dayton, OH. Their apartment building burned down and they scarcely had time to escape, leaving everything behind. Nevertheless, they can receive mail directly at the Post Office, so here's their address".
Rev. and Sis. M. Davis
2261 Crew Cir.
Dayton, OH 45439-3253
I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THAT MYSELF!!!
t said...
"My brother told me today that Davis was preaching last night and said he was getting death threats from people on the blog"
Jeff said...
Death threats? That is absurd? If he did get a death threat, it certainly didn't come from me or anyone that I know that participates on this blog. For the record I don't wish physical harm to anyone in the NTCC.
Now with that being said I am totally through with allowing verbal abuse toward any of my family members or anyone else for that matter. What I am saying is that if you insult my wife or children or someone else wife or children you will be verbally attacked by me immediately and I would not be careful with my words. Then if some NTCC creep puts one finger on me it could get physical very quickly but I certainly don't wish harm to RWD or anyone else in the NTCC.
Just because I can't stand them doesn't mean that I want to see any harm come to them. I simply have no more patience for an abusive NTCC pastor.
Jeff
rw is so much a liberal it is not even funny. He bashes the sterotype for a liberal. Rw is the one that dodge's questions. Double talks. Change's and flip flops. And if that doesn't work. Make up lie's.
As if anyone on this blog has made death threats for rw or anyone in ntcc. I know I believe he is a bit crazy. Are you guys still stuck in ntcc sure he is not senial.
CM
Wow: S.T.E.L didn't fare very well with his statements. You really messed up when Dawn jumps on you because you made an ignorant statement regarding the homeless.
Take notice of something. Concerned Minister comes on here and states his plea, and he is treated with respect by most of us and he is certainly supported by many of us.
S.T.E.L comes on here like some raving NTCC pastor who decided to misuse the pulpit to blast his entire congregation and look what happens. He got jumped on by everyone. S.T.E.L acted like a typical abusive NTCC minister but the good news is that we don't have to put up with that garbage any longer, and we don't.
Our days of getting verbally abused by some NTCC creep are completely over.
To put it in rough english; S.T.E.L got jumped on by virtually everyone because he made too many ignorant statements. It's not often that not even one individual attempts to aid an NTCC person posting on this blog.
S.T.E.L received no support and he did nothing to help the NTCC cause. In fact his approach did nothing but confirm what we have been saying about abusive, controlling NTCC ministers all along.
Jeff
For years is has been established, by many witnesses and by his own actions, that Pastor Davis is paranoid...Do we now add delusional to the list?
Of course there is the Bible principle that you reap what you sow, and Pastor Davis and Company have sown much harm over the past four decades, to include promises of judgment on all those who depart from his fold.
Of course NTCC uses the threat of God as their weapon against all those without, maybe God is employing a more direct approach to paying Pastor Davis back in kind.
Personally, I view this latest 'revelation' as wishful thinking on the part of the founder, if this even happened. Desperate men are reduced to disparate measures, and Pastor Davis multiple and grand schemes for the mega-church of his dreams has failed dismally thus far. But, maybe the persecuted martyr angle will work this time, as he has employed this tactic often in the past.
Does anyone still remember the non-dictionary definition of crazy, as was taught to us all by Pastor Davis?
pdq
Jeff,
Perhaps RW is going through NyQuil withdrawals.
Anybody got the address for RWD and his wife Verna?
MLJ
I hoped my post to STEL didn't sound mean or condescending, because that wasn't my intent at all. I was just letting him / her know that not all homeless folks are bums who deserved to be ignored or treated differently.
They are still human and bleed the same blood as us. :-)
We as Christians should love them regardless if they look awful, smell weird, have a flea bitten dog.
Now...back to cleaning a huge jar of salsa that broke all over my kitchen floor...smells kind of spicy in here at 0730....:-/
dawn,
you just dont get it....its not their smell or their clothing...its that they dont have any money to offer us
duh!!! dont you know what pastor davis taught us......they cant tithe, well they could tithe off of their "collections" hmmmm and they dont claim it on their taxes either
.......dawn you may be on to something here!! we could take a cut of their gross uh, "income"
a converted, T
personally i think Dawn is behind the death threats
......well dawn? feeling a little nauseaus now?
t
Me? Make death threats? Puuuleeeassseee...
I am too innocent for that
*sly grin* or maybe I'm not...hmmm?????
*insert creepy laugh here*
:-)
Woohoo!
You just wind them up and they go and go and go. They defend their lies with more lies and it never ends! I don't think I have to do anything else, just sit here and watch.
Seeing through exntccer lies
Dawn said...
"I hoped my post to STEL didn't sound mean or condescending"
Jeff said...
No not at all. You just told him basically the same thing that everyone else did. His homeless remark was thoroughly judgmental and was the clearest sign of his truest character.
He is a judgmental, self righteous person, that would be thoroughly obnoxious behind the pulpit. Plainly put he spoke like a pharisee who feels like he is better than most other people. The homeless remark made that apparent.
Jeff
Oh hello STEL: You must have gotten tired of ridiculing the homeless so you took a breather. That's right we are all lying. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Same old NTCC rhetoric.
That was one of the last things that the NTCC pastor said to me and my wife right before we walked out the NTCC door for good. He said: "So you have been on FACTNet, hey "CHIEF"? If you would talk to me about the things that you've read I can prove to you that it is all lies of the devil"
STEL: Are you sure you two haven't been hanging around each other or have you both been hanging around the pharisees? Do you think you might be able to come up with something original. Oh that's right; that would be too hard. Accusing us of telling nothing but lies is pretty easy.
Well nevertheless it is good to have you back because your statements have showed many just how ignorant a true NTCC loyalist can get.
Jeff
DEAR S.T.E.L. ,
Warning Signs of a Potentially Harmful Group/Leader:
1. Totalitarian: Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. Little tolerance: No place for questions or critical inquiry.
3. Unreasonable fears: Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
4. Never good enough: Followers feel they can never be good enough.
5. No reason to leave: Former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Although you don't clearly see that NTCC matches all (5), Take CLOSE NOTICE to number (5)!! In your eyes us ex ntcc'ers are always going to be WRONG, EVIL, or NEGATIVE..and you will inform the rest of NTCC that we are of that. I simply feel sorry for you. I'm sorry that you are in an org, that controls everything you do. I personally know they control EVERYTHING you do, because I was involved with NTCC for 3 yrs. Am I lying?
Further more, thats why sooo much is hidden from the prospect's while your trying to win them. I can't count how many times I was told to NOT say too much if they ask about why we wore dresses, or didn't cut our hair, or didn't wear jewelry etc. How dare you come on here, and say WE ARE LYING??!! Deep down you know the truth.
No more death threats Dawn! You need to repent and get right with God.
what is so comical. Is this person does think he is superior to us that have left ntcc. Or any Christian that is not in ntcc. Does he ever wonder,why ntcc churches are so small. And why pioneer churches usually only get maybe thirty people. And those one's are not a consistant 30. People can see through the charade that ntcc tries to pull. IT IS NOT because civilians are so hard to get into Church. Because they are sooo busy with life. That is the crap that rw tries to cover it up with. Those not in the military are using there brains. Most military members are told to check there brain in at the door. And when folks are hanging up there coats in WA at the BS. They check in there brains in at the door.
This person that is trying to defend ntcc. Has had doubts of his own. But has supressed them. He may think it is lack of faith. Something is wrong with him. NO that is God trying to get your attention. Your in a cult and God is not pleased with ntcc and what they have done to his creation. We are Gods,not ntcc property. rw has no right to tell any man how to live,what choice's to make. What is that stupid saying,following someone's example is the best form of flattery. You know your trying to look,walk just like rw or mk. Why,they are only men,just like you. Nothing special about them. God created them the sameway he created you.
Those of you trapped in WA. Get out and get into a work. Best thing that can happen to you!
CM
if you know what we share from our Personal stories is lie's. PROVE IT! If not, you have no leg to stand on.
CM
S.T.E.L
I appreciate you coming on the blog defending NTCC!
I decided to come up with a "top ten list" of how NTCC'ers defend their church.
10. Call every one that left a liar
9. Explain that the devil is telling them lies.
8. Exclaim that ex-NTCCers are confused
7. Talk about the non-existent works of certain Pastors (I guess God needs a decoder ring to read what he has done.)
6. Through much prayer and revelation, tell everyone that ex-Ntccers did want to live for God anyways
5. Proudly proclaim that "God will raise up someone else! ( Hence the waiting- list to clean houses)
...I'll continue the list on a later posting
Anon!
"Concerned Minister" was mentioned. I'm sure he is a nice guy... as far as I'm "concerned," he is casting his pearls before swine: Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Your lies never cease. I answered a bunch of lies at the beginning of this thread and none of you could prove me wrong. All you did was tell more lies to try to cover up my truth.
Seeing through exntccer lies
dude,if you knew the TRUTH. then the TRUTH would set you free! As it has us!
CM
sir,most people that live around ntcc in WA. Call you a cult. And they ses you everyday.
Most people can tell you look and talk very similiar to the lastest cult in TX.
Interview women in ntcc. they would have no idea what to say. Because the "man" was not feeding her the information to say. You are what your public image is. A CULT!!
You answered with rehetoric that ntcc fills your head with. RUBBISH. By you coming on here. Your only showing the world exactly what ntcc is all about. Hey,didn't your master rw. tell people to stay off the blogs. Your disobeying your master.
STEL said...
"Concerned Minister was mentioned. I'm sure he is a nice guy... as far as I'm "concerned," he is casting his pearls before swine"
Jeff said...
So you are saying that Concerned Minister is unwise and all the rest of us are pigs. Considering the source I'm fine with that.
I don't know who Concerned Minister is but he has displayed more wisdom in his big toe than you have in your whole body. No one with any brains will accept your critique of Concerned Minister. Strangely enough, many of us feel some allegiance to Concerned Minister so you are barking up the wrong tree.
Jeff
s.t.e.l or whatever it is:
you never responded to my posts
i asked you a few specific questions, maybe you could respond
you know im not trying to bash you but i get the feeling we are dealing with someone 20-25 years of age that was very gung ho in the military and really doesnt know what they truly believe or why they believe it
relax, and think for yourself there is no harm in it, it may even strengthen your christianity
remember- christianity is a thinking mans religion, dont be afraid to think and learn and grow, god will prove himself to you without the help of ntcc
trust me, i have been saved for 16 years and he has never let me down
when we are faithless he remains faithfull!!!
t
Jeff,
I don't get it! You can ask an NTCCer about the Bible and they can tell you inside and out. However, when the is a question about the ethics of their leaders they can never give you a straight definitive answer. What gives?
Anon!
Jeff said...
That's about the size of it.
Jeff
Let me tell you what happened. It seems that old STEL got us totally off topic. What about this zeroing out of the escrow accounts? Does anyone care to comment on that?
Jeff, we did have a building fund that totaled nearly $10K in Fairbanks. After our replacements left, the org closed the work down here, and redirected those funds elsewhere. Then some years later, Doug Allen came up here to start a work. I asked RW (during my only jack-up session before the board) whether those funds would be restored to Fairbanks, now that the work was reopened, and "when the time is right" was the answer I got. Doug was up here for several years following that pledge, and has since told me that not only were those funds never restored, he wasn't ever made aware they even existed! Eventually the Fairbanks work was closed again (thank God for that; I live here, and NTCC churches are a blight on any community).
Maybe that money paid for half of Grant's yearly tuition.
I think the most credible witness to come out to talk about the "escrow account" would be
Mr. concerned minister.
I don't think he would come out on the open to discuss this matter though because he could get in trouble with his organization. He is like nicodemus of the ntcc.
I know that Vic is as credible of a witness as they get. Vic wrote directly above, exactly what the NTCC is capable of doing with the escrow accounts. Is there anyone who thinks Vic may not be telling the whole truth??? If anyone is interested, I would really like an answer to that question.
I'm convinced that Vic is telling the complete and unscathed truth.
Jeff
Jeff nobody was talking about not believing Vic. I was just referring to "concerned min." because he is still in and I think he could update this blog about how that thing works. I'm sure he is paying towards it right now and he can shed light of what he thinks of it and what he is expecting this account to do for his congregation if he is really "concerned"
I understand.
Jeff
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