6/30/2009

The NTCC; A Communist, Capitalist Organization. Part 3 Of A Series

Thread #43 Once again; as stated in the previous thread, the definition of the word communism is: "a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party."

Communism and Capitalism usually don't run hand in hand but the NTCC is a church who's leadership has crafted a way to make the two work as one in order to satisfy their greed. To understand, one must also know the definition for capitalism: "an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth."

You see to understand this you must first understand how a corporation runs and understand that the NTCC is in fact a corporation. In a corporation people are appointed as Officers to manage all corporate assets. These appointments are normally found on the organizations corporate resolution. The corporate resolution identifies people in the corporation who have been given the authority to purchase property, sell property, redistribute property, for example in the case of the Kekel land gift, and handle the corporate finances. If the corporate officers decide to allot a specific minister an unfair share of money there is virtually nothing anyone else can do about it. Not only that but there is virtually no one else other than a select few who would even know about it like the case of the Kekel land gift. Had we not dug it up and posted it on factnet no one other than Olson, RWD, Kekel and maybe Defrancesco would know about it to this day. There are only a handful of people in the NTCC who have any control or knowledge of what goes on with any of the NTCCs property or money.

You see the point that I was making when saying all that, is that the system of capitalism only legitimately benefits a select few in the NTCC. Everyone else, with a few exceptions in the NTCC, for all intensive purposes, lives under Communism. Why? Because the self-perpetuating totalitarian capitalist NTCC leaders, control all economic activity within the NTCC. Hence the definition of communism.

Take the seminary for example. Here is what the student handbook says about finances: "The Seminary looks to the Lord to supply its material needs through the gifts of His stewards, and it is consistent with scripture to, if necessary, make the Seminary's financial needs known. Giving is a privilege and is entirely voluntary."

First off that is garbage. Lets be real. The Seminary doesn't look to the Lord for anything. It looks to the people. That is one of RWDs common teachings and I heard him say this kind of stuff openly in conference. He said that some pastors are in terrible need of money because they are afraid to ask the people. He also taught that if the pastors weren't holding a full schedule of church services they had no business calling Graham if they were short on money. So what he was teaching is that the more church services you hold per week the more money you can bleed from your poeple or the more you can fleece your sheep. Then these crooked NTCC leaders once again used some good old mind manipulation to convince their students that they the students will receive benefit when they give money. They did this when they stated in writing that quote "Giving is a privilege." I'm of the belief that Kekel is "privileged" when he receives enough money from the NTCC "givers" that he is able to live in a huge house that is like a museum inside and he is able to send his son to an academy that costs almost $20,000 a year! Kekel and RWD and some of the other greedy ministers are the ones privileged, not the other way around.

In fact the NTCC has figured out how to make it as hard as possible for the average member or minister to ever accumulate any substantial amount of money or assets. How do I draw that conclusion? Show me one place in the bible where it says that you "HAVE" to attend "Five" services a week or you will go to hell? An NTCC person is generally forbidden from working on Saturdays or Sundays or in the evenings or overtime. The NTCC teaches that women can't work unless the NTCC leadership makes an exception to that rule. They don't tell you about the exception part even though it does exist. It's not even biblical to teach that women can't work on a job in the first place. I've proved that in previous threads. The NTCC writes that giving is voluntary but the leadership lays every guilt trip imaginable on folks who don't either feel compelled to give, or really can't afford to give. So "the people" give anyway, and they remain broke working limited hours due to NTCC mandates, while denying there wife the option of "legitimately helping out" due to NTCC mandates, while simultaneously watching the Kekel and Davis family become more wealthy by the minute at the current or previous expense of everyone else's sacrifice.

Plainly put the NTCC has their people duped. Because of their bogus rules, the NTCC leadership covertly controls all economic activity within THEIR organization and then to top it off they manipulatively convince their people that "Giving is a privilege". For the record giving to the poor and needy is a privilege; not giving to a church that only provides substantial monetary benefits to the greedy rich folks and no one else. I believe that God expects us to have better judgement than that. I don't call that being a good steward. You wonder why you can't seem to ever get out of the poverty class, NTCC person? Maybe because you give all your money away while letting the NTCC convince you not to work on a job that interferes with their services. What good are all those services and functions doing you anyway? The Bible says that you are worse than an infidel if you aren't providing for your own family; 1Tim 5:8. The Bible was talking about your immediate family not Kekel and RWD. The NTCC won't even let there students quit their job if they don' t tell the NTCC leadership first. Once again, another example of control of economic activity.

Jeff

44 comments:

Casey Hayes said...

Quotes from Animal Farm:

"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon (RW Davis) that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 5

"they had come to a time when no one dared speak his mind, when fierce, growling dogs roamed everywhere, and when you had to watch your comrades torn to pieces after confessing to shocking crimes." Chapter 7

"It had become usual to give Napoleon (RW) the credit for every successful achievement and every stroke of good fortune. You would often hear one hen remark to another, 'Under the guidance of our Leader, Comrade Napoleon, I have laid five eggs in six days'; or two cows, enjoying a drink at the pool, would exclaim, 'Thanks to the leadership of Comrade Napoleon, how excellent this water tastes!'"
- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 8

"ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"
- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 10

But in the end, the pigs walked on 2 legs!

Anonymous said...

It's the old money hangup...

Jeff said...

Hey Casey! Good to see you. I trust everything is going fine.

Look what Vic wrote in the previous thread:

"I used to waste 20-30 percent of my income on NTCC too. Since I quit doing that, I have been blessed far beyond what I experienced in the org.

Prove me herewith, saith Vic: quit squandering the substance God has entrusted to your stewardship by giving it to rich religious charlatans, and see if God won't open the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing.

It's working for everyone I know."

Jeff said...

His statement is very relevant to this thread. In fact it is precisely on point. The NTCC has their people completely fooled concerning the matters of financial blessing and financial stability. There is a simple Bible formula that works every time. It's called working hard while not simultaneously allowing a crooked church organization to convince you that "ALL" of their church functions are more important than a job and financial stability. The truth is, by example the NTCC teaches financial instability.

I listened to RWD stand up in conference and praise a brother for quitting his job just so he could attend conference. I "think" the brothers name was Saunders. He is a black guy who frequently led the song services during the conferences.

What kind of example and advise is that? Poor professional and financial advice for sure. You don't quite a job just so you can hear RWD rant and rave about how he never missed God, and he can't remember the last time that he sinned, and if you have a problem with him or one of his abusive pastors you have a problem with God.

You wonder why you are struggling to remain financially stable NTCC folks? There is your answer. "Vic hit it right on the money." Ha, ha. Good pun hey?

Jeff

Jeff said...

Anonymous said...

"It's the old money hangup..."

Jeff said...

"It's the old NTCC abusive manipulator again..."

You are right. It is the old money hangup. The same one that RWD testified of when he said before all in conference that he prayed to God years ago that he would become a millionaire.

You are no doubt one of the many NTCC manipulators that teaches their people that the reason they are broke is because they aren't spiritual or good money handlers like RWD and Kekel.

No I'm wrong. You just think that taking care of your family in a decent fashion is of no importance. Well I take that back. Not unless you are RWD or Kekel. You better believe it is the old money hangup because the last time I checked you don't have a car that runs on air alone. Oh I suppose you carry all those folks on your back, that you bring to your local NTCC church to receive verbal abused.

Jeff

Anonymous said...

Jeff said in a previous thread that Rev. Jones told him that his job was unacceptable. I just never read what Jeff said his job was that was so unacceptable. Could it be that Jeff is trying to hide something and only wants to tell part of the story to make NTCC look bad? I think so. This is the old worn out technique that is constantly used here: "expose" the other guy while not telling the side that would "expose" you.

Jeff didn't want to mention that he was a used car salesman, and that he only went to church on Sundays because he lived almost two hours away from the church and yet, his wife was allowed to play piano and sing for services on Sunday while Jeff led song service! Mean ol' NTCC pastors were just too hard on Jeff.

Anonymous said...

i read what jeff said his job was before.

Chief said...

Boy do I love a challenge. The false accuser will be picked apart.

Jeff

Chief said...

Anonymous said...

"Jeff didn't want to mention that he was a used car salesman"

Jeff said...

Lie #1. If you are going to quote facts about me get it right. I sold brand new Toyota vehicles and the Toyota store that I worked at didn't have used cars at all because I was at an auto mall. I could sell used cars across the mall if I so desired, but I elected to stay away from the used car lot because I didn't like dealing with pre-owned vehicles at all. I was a certified Toyota sales rep who worked in the Toyota store and that's what I sold. I did a whole lot more good for the people in Columbus as a reputable automobile salesman than anyone that I ever met in the NTCC who was a minister. People that came to me to purchase a new automobile knew they were dealing with someone who had good character and integrity which is a whole lot more than I can say for a good percentage of the NTCC ministers that I met.

Lie #2. If you are going to quote facts about me get the first part of your statement right. I have repeatedly stated on this blog and on Tracy's blog that I sold "New Toyota's" This is a fact that has not even remotely been kept hidden. I don't have to state such information every time I post a message. For the record I am proud to have sold so many Toyota's because I was very good at it. That is a whole lot more honorable than RWD constantly recommencing Cadillacs which are one of the worst automobile brands that exists for reliability and this fact is evidenced by the consumer reports guide and Cadillac has been a poor brand for years. So when you try and bag on my previous sales profession you should probably reroute your attacks toward RWDs illogical automobile recommedations. I wouldn't recommend a Cadillac to my worst enemy. They are proven to remain stricken with mechanical and electrical problems.

Now to give clarification to some more of your inaccurate statements / lies. I didn't only go to church on Sunday and while we were with the NTCC Columbus church we moved twice and on both occasions much closer to Columbus so I was only briefly two hours away from the church in Columbus.

When I was two hours away from the Columbus church my family quite frequently stayed in Columbus with some friends that we rented a room from or we stayed on Ft. Benning where we would "regularly" rent rooms through the Ft Benning lodging office. During that entire time I worked security in Atlanta and I had never sold a car in my life. So you were wrong about that also. However during that time we did stay in Columbus so that we could not only attend more services but also do things like go soul winning as well which I did regularly. I used to attend pastor Hunts soulwinning meetings in Columbus on Saturday and then go soul winning. Man your facts are way off. This was before Oberhauser even got to Columbus.

It wasn't until my son started preschool that we cut way back on our church service attendance so my little boy could go to bed at a decent time and not go to school tired. My son started preschool after we moved right outside Columbus so we were no where even near two hours away by that time. We spent more time in church when we were two hours away so get your facts straight.

Providing for my family definitely took precedence over the NTCC functions by that time especially after all the abuse that my family and I personally dealt with and witnessed.

Even during that time I would still periodically catch a service during the week. By that time I had in fact fully decided that neither me or my family would any longer be guilt tripped into attending an inordinate number of services. My family would be place first over the NTCC and I am making no apologies for that decision at all.

So it seems that you need to get your facts straight before you attempt to inaccurately discredit my character the next time.

Jeff

Chief said...

And while I am at it my wife and I were in Atlanta before we ever started attending church in Columbus.

During that time we attended almost every single solitary church service and every Saturday soul winning event and we even often went soul winning during the week and all this was continued with VERY, VERY few exceptions. My wife taught Sunday school, went to choir practice, womens Bible study and everything else you can dream of. I may have missed two or three services at the most, the entire time I was in the Atlanta church which was close to two years.

We went to all the conferences and fellowship meetings. We cleaned the church, my wife painted the nursery, I helped take care of the outdoor grass area that was infested with weeds, I helped put the pews in and the list goes on and on. We traveled all over the City of Atlanta picking up people for church and sometimes in two different vehicles.

So you don't know what you are talking about you jerk. If you want to question my dedication than call me.

404-405-7842
Jeff Collins

Jeff said...

Do I need to bring up my lifestyle and the continued dedicatory habits that I exhibited while living in the serviceman's homes?

I didn't think so. You anonymous are just the typical NTCC character assassination artist. Guys like you keep this blog interesting. Thanks.

Jeff

Anonymous said...

to someone deep into ntcc, an unacceptable job is one that would keep a person from attending the scheduled sevices and functions. forget about the fact that a person needs to work to feed, clothe and shelter a family. (what happened to the if you don't work you don't eat scripture)

Casey said...

I hung around Jeff one day, and I think we ran into 3 people he had sold cars to. All of them were happy to see Jeff and excited to see him again. Unlike alot of ntcc pastors.

Anonymous said...

Man Jeff, I don't know which job Rev. Jones called unacceptable, but a new car salesman is even worse than a used car salesman. If you don't have the money to waste on a new car that is going to lose almost 50% of its value then you are always better off getting a used car that has been leased. I don't want to buy a new car and have a car note to pay every month. You end up paying every month on a car that you owe more money on than it is worth. You sure did a lot of good Jeff!

I don't think I've ever heard Pastor recommend Cadillacs, however, I do know he likes them.

All I know is what I heard about your church attendance in Columbus. Isn't it funny that when someone says something about exers that isn't completely accurate, they can call foul, but when the exer says something that is not accurate, they don't want to be called a liar. So when your sources give you information that isn't completely accurate, and you blow it up bigger than it is, don't get upset when someone calls you a liar, hypocrite!

Anonymous said...

So funny how mind numbed robots in ntcc will find to argue about. That Jeff sold cars and Gasp ,new cars. Rw buys new cars,that lose there value as soon as your drive it off the lot.
And you know everyone in ntcc wants to mimic and be just like there dictator rw. What he drives everyone wants to drive. The suits he wears,watch,wallet,how he decorates his home,how his wife dresses. On and on. The whole ORG. is mimics of rw or mk,tk,vd.Why they dress like old fogies,drive vechiles that are not a wise choice,one dresses like a slut,antique OLD furniture in there home's.... Nothing that great to mimic and want to live like they live.

CM

Anonymous said...

what he HEARD about Jeff's Church attandance. Was he talking about another person without them in person to hear what is being Said About them.
Gee,I think this ntcc fanatic is GOSSIPING!! SINNER!

CM

NS said...

Anonymous,
I appreciate someone coming on here clearing up rumors about Jeff on this blog. Most NTCC-ers not all let rumors ride about ex-ers without confrontation or clarity!

CM I wouldn't say it was gossiping if this person was honestly seeking the truth...but I see your point.

Anon, I don't see where ex-ers have made up things about the leadership and have been confronted with FACTS about it....could you site an example.

NS

Jeff said...

Anonymous said...

Man Jeff, I don't know which job Rev. Jones called unacceptable, but a new car salesman is even worse than a used car salesman. If you don't have the money to waste on a new car that is going to lose almost 50% of its value then you are always better off getting a used car that has been leased. I don't want to buy a new car and have a car note to pay every month. You end up paying every month on a car that you owe more money on than it is worth. You sure did a lot of good Jeff!

Jeff said...

No matter what car you buy you owe more than what it is worth if you make payments so welcome to the automobile industry Einstein. A new car salesman and a used car salesman are both better than an NTCC hypocrite like yourself. Read the Gospels: Jesus thought more of outright sinners than religious hypocrites. Jesus would think much more highly of a decent, new car salesman with integrity, who provided a great service to the general public like myself than he would of a religious hypocrite like yourself.

Now concerning your hypothesis of depreciation. All cars, new and used depreciate. Most one, two and three years old cars cost nearly as much as a comparable new vehicle. At least if they are in decent condition with low miles they do. They don't have available rebates either which more so narrows the margin. For example if I buy a car for $20,000 with zero miles brand new, it should be worth $3000 more than the same model and make automobile with 30000 miles.

I don't know where you get your %50 depreciation stats from? It's true that Cadillac's depreciate 30 - 50% in the first year or two but not a Toyota however once again you don't have a clue what you are talking about. It's obvious with your ignorant and unlearned statements that you know little or nothing about the automobile industry. If all car salesman are crooks like RWD and Kekel, why do you even drive a car? Aren't you partaking in their sins you hypocrite? You need to go back to the old days and ride around on horses and not patronize any automobile dealerships new or used.

Anonymous also wrote...

"All I know is what I heard about your church attendance in Columbus."

Jeff responded...

If Oberhauser wasn't such a boring preacher I may have made a few more services but I got sick and tired of the NTCCs garbage anyway so I was no longer interested in the cookie cutter messages and the NTCC rhetoric. With that being said church attendance obviously hasn't helped many of NTCCs pastors because they have yet to learn basic principles like "Common Decency".

By the way I must have missed the part in the Bible where God judged Christians by the number of church services that they attended?

Jeff

Anonymous said...

Anonymous
It sounds like you'll never know what a new car smells like and you know why? You have to hold a job longer than a few years or be related to the dynasty you slave for to own one. I’m sure your resume is a joke just like you.

Chief said...

Casey said...

I hung around Jeff one day, and I think we ran into 3 people he had sold cars to. All of them were happy to see Jeff and excited to see him again. Unlike a lot of ntcc pastors.

Jeff said...

I've sold new Toyota's to hundreds of people in and all around Columbus GA. I had a family on three separate occasions, purchase automobiles specifically from me. The man even brought his parents and son who each purchased a separate car from me. Each time it was a 4 hour round trip and the ironic part was that there was a Toyota dealership in the town that they lived in.

People trust a guy who looks out for their best interests which is exactly what I did when I sold new Toyota's. I took good care of my customers and they knew it and Casey is an eye witness to the type of good relationships that I had and still have with my customers. One of my customers brought his family to my house and my wife fixed them dinner. We also went out to eat together at a restaurant. We are friends with a guy who was in the NFL who purchased two vehicles from me and we have stayed in touch ever since. He is a youth minister at a local Christian church. A Pastor of a very large church shopped me against other dealerships and bought with me and sent his church members to shop with me as well who also bought.

I could go on for days about my customers Anonymous but guess what? Other than the need to clear up your false allegations on this blog I could care less what you think because Columbus Georgia and many surrounding towns and cities and states for that matter have proud Toyota owners who think extremely highly of their good salesmen; Jeff Collins, and they still call me for automobile related advice. I sleep good at night having a whole city full of people who think very highly of me and the service that I provide them.

To the contrary this blog is chalk full previous NTCC customers who have little or nothing good to say about the treatment they received while with the NTCC. My previous customers love me but they wouldn't if I hadn't taken good care of them because sooner or later they would have figured it out just like we've figured out the NTCC. I'll take the good car salesman over many of the NTCC preachers any day.

Did I just toot my own horn? You better believe it!

Jeff

Vic Johanson said...

RW often referred people to a car salesman friend of his in St. Louis (can't remember his name, unfortunately). If they're all such despicable cretins, why was the apostle palling around with one?

I wonder if he got any kickbacks.

Anonymous said...

How many times has a brother in the home or a Pastor fixed up a car with "bubblegum and ductape" and resold it to some brother for what they put in it?

NS

LTravis said...

Anonymous said...
How many times has a brother in the home or a Pastor fixed up a car with "bubblegum and ductape" and resold it to some brother for what they put in it?

NS
*************

Sounds like a used ntcc salesman.
ha!ha!

Anonymous said...

We are Saturn Fans. If you lose your job. They will even make payments for a certain amount of time. I love the no pressure atmosphere there. Now,here's a deal. Oh you don't like that deal. Here is another deal crap!

Anonymous said...

Ha-Ha,this guy doesn't want a car payment. Because he could not pay the car payment. Because rw likes his minister's DIRT POOR!
He uses the cop out,of bashing buying a new car as a rip off. He is is envious that he can not afford a car. And a nicer quality of life. LIKE rw and mk enjoy EVERYDAY!!

Anonymous said...

This spirit behind this Anon poster. It does not appear that he was taking in nice tone's about Jeff with this other Anon person.

Talking about his Church attandance. As if that is some badge of honor. Or how many Church service you attend is something special in Gods eye! NOT!! Ntcc will say you have a "heart problem" if your not in EVERY service. Then you must have a heart problem. YES,there is a problem. We know the crap that is preached in ntcc serivice is dribble,double talk,repeative trash. Much of what is preached,they make no sense. Start in one spot and end up in another spot. Keep a person confused and they make no sense at all.

Those of you,if you start tuning them out. First step that you will escape ntcc!

CM

Jeff said...

For all it's worth, when the economy got bad, people dramatically cut back on their automobile purchases.

As a result I decided to find employment elsewhere. This was about 4 months ago. Well I resigned from Toyota on a Saturday with no real direction for employment or job leads. Three days later on a Tuesday after I dropped my Son off at Kindergarten, I went by a company to find out when they planned to post job openings with the Georgia Department Of Labor. I was hoping to get an inside track because that is how this particular company had previously posted their job openings.

There was a senior supervisor present and he told me that his supervisor should be returning shortly. He asked if I had a resume. I asked if I could use his computer so that I could access my email in order to pull one up and print it out. He was fine with that. Within five minutes his boss walks through the door and I introduce myself to him. He asked me a few questions and to make a long story short I was hired right on the spot. I returned that Thursday and officially started work on Monday just four days later.

Imagine that. Sometimes things just seem to work out. About two weeks after I left Toyota I received a call from Toyota informing me that I had to pick up my last paycheck that I didn't even know I still had coming. I received my last paycheck from Toyota about the same day that I received my first paycheck from my new job.

I just got a nice little bonus from the VA that I hadn't expected either. I noticed today that it has posted to my account. That was also unexpected money.

Why am I saying all this? For two reasons. Number one because things are working out fine for me and my family, and I am no longer a part of the NTCC. Imagine that! Number two because I want folks to know the true story before another NTCCer decides to come on here again and publish inaccurate data like the last one did.

Jeff

Jeff said...

Anonymous said...

"Oh you don't like that deal. Here is another deal crap!"

Jeff said...

Not one salesman that I worked with "EVER" used a statement that even remotely resembled what you wrote. We were far more professional than that.

If anyone out there is planning on purchasing a car in the future and needs advice, please call me because I am sure I can help you out. I can tell you how to make it an easy purchase and probably save you a bunch of money in the process. And if you do need financing, I can tell you the best route to take there as well. I know how to sell cars and I know how to buy them and I also know that most people don't. The ones who think they do are usually the ones who don't. I'm just trying to help if anyone ever feels that they could use some guidance in this area. If so don't hesitate to call.

404-405-7842
Jeff

LTravis said...

I love that new car smell. I think I'll buy another one this summer.
Hey Jeff can you help me out? I like your reputation. I have excellent credit and a good work history. For the record I copied the following comments:

The Bible: Work or Don't Eat
One thing I love about the Bible is that it takes a hard stand on people who try to just "get by" and feed off others without doing a lick of work themselves. Here's my favorite verse on this topic:

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:10

Yep, don't work, don't eat. I think that says it all.

Notice that it doesn't say that those who CAN NOT work should not eat. No, we should have compassion on and help out those people. But if someone can work, yet WILL NOT work, then he's left to the consequences of his actions (or inactions in this case).

Here are a couple other verses on this same line of thinking:

Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 10:4

How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest -- and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man. Proverbs 6:9-11

So get out there and work! Or find a way to survive without eating.

Unknown said...

Jeff,

My 'Post Traumatic' blog is done. How would you like me to send it to you?

pdq said...

Vic,

Remember Pastor Davis would brag, "He was M.B Thomas Auto & Motor Homes best salesman."

Pastor Davis steered us all to buy vehicles from him, so he would get a better deal on his personal Cadillacs and Motor Homes.

As far as I know this 'arrangement' exists to this day. Don't dispair Jeff (I know you aren't), Pastor Davis sells cars also. He is just not forthright about it.

You are right Jeff, research shows Cadillacs are junk (ask Rev. Johnson). As you know, Toyota's hold their value quite well, having one of the highest resale values of any auto line. But they also last 'forever.' Look in the paper, their are not many Toyota's (proportionally) for sale, compared to most of the other manufacturers (really, any Asian car is worth buying). I have owned three Toyota's, and they were each superb vehicles (Toyota is the only new vehicle I buy).

The Tundra is (or recently was) the best selling full size truck. The next new full size truck I get will be a Toyota Tundra. I talked to a Car Salesman at a no-pressure-new-Toyota's-only dealership; he is as nice, professional, helpful, informative, concerned, and transparent as I have found Jeff to be.

Yours In Him,

pdq ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪♪.♫..♫...♪....♪.....

Casey Hayes said...

I am happy to report that after leaving ntcc I bought my first NEW car. A 2008 Dodge Avenger. After 20 years of driving used and junk cars, because that was all I could afford while in ntcc, I decided to get a car that didn't break and had a 3 year warranty. I don't regret it at all. The car looks great, drives great and doesn't break down!! I don't care about the depreciation, because I plan on keeping it for a while. But, if I do decide to buy new again-- no problem. After leaving ntcc I was finally able to make enough money to get out of debt, restore my credit, and can buy most anything I want-- including a house. But that's life after ntcc.

If you think a car depreciates-- how much do you think Davis's new RV's are depreciating. Plus they get terrible gas milage. (But, of course, he isn't paying the bill-- the church is).

Vic Johanson said...

It's interesting (and quite typical of the NTCC mentality) that a person would be stereotyped solely on the basis of occupation. Of course, if the org leaders were the only preachers we were exposed to, I suppose we would have a similarly dim view of the ministry. But fortunately we have learned through our past experiences with NTCC to be less narrow minded and judgmental when it comes to drawing conclusions about people we don't even know.

Vic Johanson said...

MB Thomas--that's the guy, PDQ. He and RW were thick as thieves.

Anonymous said...

the worthless diploma and graduation
http://michaelckekel.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-testament-christian-seminary.html

Anonymous said...

if one is called to preach, you dont need a license from a man to allow you to preach.

Anonymous said...

Jeff,

Here is a quote from CNN that seems to me to fit your little operation here...

"As information online moves faster and comes from more sources, it's more difficult to verify what's true and what may be shockingly false."

Jeff said...

LaQueshia said...

"My 'Post Traumatic' blog is done. How would you like me to send it to you?"


Jeff said...

Give me a call so that I can give you my email address. I don't like posting it here because of the inevitable spam that would come my way.

404-405-7842
Jeff

Vic Johanson said...

"As information online moves faster and comes from more sources, it's more difficult to verify what's true and what may be shockingly false."

How about:

"As information online moves faster and comes from more sources, it's more difficult for abusive manipulators to continue to hide their pernicious ways from potential victims."

Vic Johanson said...

Speaking of the sadly deluded, here's what one commenter had to say about the recent graduation:

"It's great to see that the fate of the world rest in the hands of these dashing young men."

Here we go again...the FATE OF THE WORLD is depending on a handful of NTCC ministers. Yes, it's the old "God's last call" hooey, repackaged for the newest crop of suckers, who have no idea what is in store for them. Maybe we can check back in a few years and see how many have figured it out and moved on to better lives.

Jeff said...

Anonymous said...

Here is a quote from CNN that seems to me to fit your little operation here...

"As information online moves faster and comes from more sources, it's more difficult to verify what's true and what may be shockingly false."

Jeff said...

Here is my own quote that does in fact fit your much bigger operation...

"As information online moves faster and comes direct to you from more exNTCC ministers and church members, it becomes more difficult to understand how so many current NTCCers can remain so brainwashed?"

Jeff's answer: Because they actually see no problem with the perpetuation of double standards and hypocrisy. Guys like you are part of the problem. Do me a favor; go have your wife clean Kekels house and wash his dirty underwear would you? That seems like a good little operation. LOL.

Jeff

Jeff said...

Vic: While you were posting your quote I was posting mine. I guess we were thinking along the same lines.

Take care Vic and I hope the best for you and your family. For that matter I hope the best for all the NTCC folks and their families which is why this blog exists.

Jeff

Anonymous said...

Here is how we play the game. Someone says something and then it gets twisted to fit our way of thinking. Humans are a curious creature. If you tell them something that goes against what they already know, or think they know, it will be rejected. Someone said something to the effect of this: all truth goes through three phases: first, it is rejected, second, it is ridiculed, third, it is accepted.

"As information online moves faster and comes from more sources, it's more difficult to verify what's true and what may be shockingly false."

Vic said...
"As information online moves faster and comes from more sources, it's more difficult for abusive manipulators to continue to hide their pernicious ways from potential victims."

Jeff said...
"As information online moves faster and comes direct to you from more exNTCC ministers and church members, it becomes more difficult to understand how so many current NTCCers can remain so brainwashed?"

"Vic: While you were posting your quote I was posting mine. I guess we were thinking along the same lines."

Interesting...

Jeff said...

Anonymous said...

Interesting...

Jeff said...

The point I was making when I said that Vic and I were thinking along the same lines had nothing to do with the content of our responses. It had to do with me and Vic responding to the same statement at precisely the same time. Good observation though Anonymous.

Anonymous; you appear to be a fairly intelligent individual. I'm surprised the NTCC still has their hooks in you, unless you are MK of course or one of the leaders. I expect MK to remain with the NTCC because it is his source of income and a very good one at that, and he obviously has no moral reservations with the perpetuation of double standards and deceit. He has in his mind a good thing going on, with the maid service, complements of the NTCC female population.

Jeff

Casey Hayes said...

Anonomous,

Those of you still in ntcc are curious creatures too. You believe everything that is spoonfed you, attack anyone who disagrees or says anything negative about anything-- even if it is TRUE. You don't analyze anything-- just attack, discredit and smear. At least we have the guts to post our real names, instead of hiding behind "anonymous", which is like hiding behind a rock. But, hey, I was in ntcc and acted just like you at one time, so I understand.