Thread #38 Whenever someone leaves NTCC, almost without fail they will lie about that person. If you go away quietly and keep your big mouth shut, you may get away with a mild lie, where they will tell people, “He got crossed up with God”, “He started listening to the devil”, etc. If you leave and decide to spill the beans about ntcc, and tell people how abusive and manipulative they are, then the leaders will be compelled to tell the big lie—“He turned into a devil”; “I knew he never was saved”; “they just wanted the world”; or maybe “I think he ran off with someone’s wife and is a drunk now”.
I was thinking about this recently, because someone posted how after I left, some “workers” that we briefly had criticized us as being lazy and not wanting to “work for the Lord”—or something to that effect. I’ve also heard that I left because I wanted money. (I find that funny, because when your in ntcc and have NO money, and leave and finally get some—you supposedly left because you were greedy and loved money more than God. But, if you’re one of the rich leaders who is living like a millionaire in your mansion, while your fellow brothers and sisters are near poverty and you do nothing for them—nobody seems to think that maybe the LEADERS love money more than God!). But the worst was the lie that we had taken money sent to us in an oversees work and “misappropriated” it by spending it on our kids. Not only was it a lie, but I tearfully asked God why the leaders would lie about me like that!!!! Well, I’ve learned since then that it is classic Davis.
But, it is just really unfair (and sinister really) that you can devote years and years of your life to ntcc, spend all of your hard earned money for ntcc, sacrifice your wife and kids lifestyle, go through incredible hardship and pressure and turmoil, and live in poverty—all for ntcc—just to have them LIE about you when you leave-- and make everyone, especially your friends, think that you are a loser who just wasn’t willing to sacrifice for the Lord. It doesn’t matter if you were faithful for 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, or 30 years. You WILL be lied about and talked bad about, and the church will be left with a negative impression of you. It’s called Character Assassination. And ntcc has perfected it. You wish you could call all your ntcc friends and tell them the TRUTH, but you can’t.
I remember Kekel telling me how Brian Pelfrey, who is a good friend of mine, got “crossed up with God and started lying about ntcc”. At the time I had a hard time believing that Brian and his wife would do that. Later, after talking to him directly, I found out that the story was completely different than I was led to believe. Brian had made the mistake of telling Davis how incredibly abusive and manipulative Steve Dorsey and his wife were toward the congregation in Newport News, Virginia. The church members had come up to them one by one to recount horror stories of Dorsey. When Brian brought this to Davis’ attention, he was told that the church members were lying and that it never happened. But it DID happen. Brian and Tracy left ntcc soon after- and so Davis brought out the BIG LIE. It wasn’t Dorsey that was the problem, it was BRIAN who was the problem! Classic cult tactic.
Has anyone else on here been lied about?
33 comments:
I have been lied to, probably lied about.
I really do not care what folks in NTCC have to say about me.
My testimony speaks for itself. If NTCC leaders talk about me, that is fine.
Let them talk about the double tithe I used to pay. Let them talk about a faithful songleader, soul winner, go getter, leave it all for broke brother, pay $$$ for the preacher and his wife to go to conference. pay $$$$$ for seed money for a new church, give another brother $$$ to buy a used car so the brother could pick people up for church.
Let them talk about the fact that I cared. I cared about my contacts. I wanted them to be more than just a number, a status quo. Let them talk about me assisting in all aspects of a new church, shining the pastors shoes, taking out the pastors trash, taking the verbal abuse over the pulpit, letting the pastor decide where I will PCS to, having my wife suffer a miscarriage due to excessive soul winning.
Let them talk. They will be hard pressed to find hardly any fault, if any. If anything, I tried too hard.
Bro Johnson
In Korea,
God assisted me in ways some of you may be able to relate to, maybe not.
It normally goes like this: 30 minutes prior to service. I am the song leader. I have 6-7 contacts to check on. 5 commit to come out to church. I have no car. I pray to God to help me get a ride for my contacts. Then a taxi appears or taxi's are available. This was my normal battle rhythem.
It is easy to get over familar with the supernatural and a miracle becomes common place or even expected.
MLJ
The biggest Lie is NTCC itself.
The Organization is corrupt and the leadership is a joke.
Casey,
NTCC's own people bear witness to all that goes on. NTCC's own people contribute and perpetuate what we bear witness of.
The more dedicated among NTCC take comfort in the fact that because they have not 'personally' experienced (or witnessed) every specific instance of abuse that we have reported, none of the rest of it is true. In this they assume for themselves the attributes of God...that they are all knowing, all seeing, in all places simultaneously (they reserve 'all power' exclusively for Pastor Davis). In this they ignore their own NTCC observations and NTCC experiences.
We all share upwards of 90% (myself included) of these negative experiences.
Another way to consider this, and the way I do, is...if I have witnessed (or experienced) any one thing, or even half of the things reported online, then NTCC is wrong. Especially since Pastor Davis has never missed God, hasn't sinned since he became a Christian more than 50 years ago, and all he does is by the Holy Ghost. It is Pastor Davis that has set the bar so high for his own ministry, so forgive us when we point out when his ministry does not 'measuring up.'
The fact that NTCCers need more 'proof,' above their own experiences, shows something is broken within them.
Casey, NTCC has lied about me also, (while I tell the truth about them, adding my witness to yours) even going so far as coercing my wife to leave me, and come back 'home' to Graham.
Long time friends have not returned my emails, or contacted me, to get my 'side.' My relationship with my family members (still in) has been severed as a direct result of the slander of the senior leadership. Yet, I am still around, easily contacted, and still pursuing an 'official NTCC sanctioned' relationship with them.
I guess it is easier to tell (and spread) the 'BIG LIE' when you don't want to know the truth that comes from 'knowing' both sides of the story.
But, we can all take some measure of comfort in the fact all NTCC does is by the direction and approval of the Holy Ghost.
Yours In Him,
pdq
PDQ,
If they know the truth(church members) it requires them to take action! So a lot of folks go along with what the Pastor says so they are not obligated to act.
pdq wrote...
"Casey, NTCC has lied about me also, (while I tell the truth about them, adding my witness to yours) even going so far as coercing my wife to leave me, and come back 'home' to Graham."
Jeff said...
That will be the topic of the next thread that I start. "NTCCs attempt to break up marriages."
Casey is right. When people leave the NTCC, it is regularly said, "They didn't want God" or "They want the world" or "They just want to be a part of a compromising church", and so on and so on.
Well what RWD called the world for years is now common practice with Mike Kekel. So which one is wrong? RWD or Kekel. If Kekel is wrong than so is RWD because RWD know exactly what Kekel does and RWD has no problem with it.
If RWD is wrong than so is about three quarters of the NTCC ministers because their teachings come directly from RWD.
No matter how you look at it the NTCC is wrong and it is obvious that they have been that way for as long as they've existed.
Jeff
Jeff,
Then by your factual accounts, NTCC has sheered their own conscious with a hot iron as they themselves set a standard they no longer keep.
Either Davis the 24th or 25th or 26th Elder hanging out around the thrown of God (so many elders, so little time) is slacking or loosing his touch or is loosing the standards or we all have been pimped.
Kekel never wanted to be like Davis anyway. We all see that clearly now, Did Billy Graham's son change his standard like his father did? I do not think so.
Kekel is a different mold, a different breed, a 21ST Century Pastoral hope to a lost and dying world. His marriage to Tanya bridges the gap between the 20TH (his father in law Davis) and the 21ST Century. Somehow Tanya gets thrown into the equation and you have a UNHOLY Trinity. Then, there is Grant. Has anyone noticed that Grant has no say in any mattered? I wonder if he is being groomed to carry on the family tradition?
Davis (the father). Kekel (the son-in law). Tanya the UNHOLY (please don't drink any spirits).
They are a tight nit group, them three. Has there been any thread that does not mention any one of their names at least once?
Kind of makes you wonder what they talk about at night. Probably us!!
Bro Johnson
NTCC is the ONLY church I know of, that when you leave you ARE burned. It's like being in the mob, or a gang-- once your IN you are not allowed to leave, or else. In ntcc's mind, anyone who leaves is WRONG, period! I heard of people leaving other churches, and it is always a good experience with the church wishing you well in the future. Not ntcc. If you leave, they will ruin your good reputation, talk bad about you, destroy your character, and do everything they can to make sure those still in "get the message"-- that way those still in are afraid to leave. If your in ntcc, welcome to the mob.
I was absolutely lied about. I apparently left the organization for "filthy lucre". Good grief!
I could see people talking bad about me because I am a fairly outspoken, and often people like me bring a certain degree of heartache upon themselves.
Casey is a whole different kind of guy. I know Casey quite well. He has been to my house and we talk about 3 times a week. He is the kind of guy that you just can't talk bad about. WHY? Because he is naturally too "GOOD NATURED." Does everyone know what it is to have a "Good Nature?" It means that you seem and act happy almost all the time. In Casey's case he does seem happy all the time.
He is my buddy and I am not talking bad about him but it is almost strange. That guy has been through some hard times and he always seems happy and acts happy and LOOKS happy. Ramirez looks mad all the time. Casey looks happy all the time. How in the world are you going to talk bad about a guy like that? The NTCC figured out a way. I know why the NTCC didn't feel like Casey fit their mold? Two reasons.
Number one, because they are going to discredit anyone who leaves anyway and number two because Casey is not an abusive Jerk like so many of RWD's flunkies. To "REALLY" make it as an NTCC pastor, you have to be heartless to a degree and the problem is, Casey is anything but that. You have to be willing to practice the same kind of garbage that RWD has for years.
You have to be willing to work your people to exhaustion and then turn right around and promote them cleaning your house like Kekel and RWD. You have to be willing to use people if you are ever going to be a successful NTCC pastor. You have to be willing to tell women they can't work on a job, but they can work in Kekels house or they can work as a teacher if their name is Tanya Kekel. It is no surprise they talked about Casey when he left.
Concerned Minister proved that the NTCC did talk bad about Casey when Concerned Minister wrote of Casey's departure from PR and the org. They must have talked about Casey or Concerned Minister wouldn't have known anything about Casey's circumstances. They will talk about you too if you ever leave all you NTCC ministers!!! I don't care how much you've done for the good ole org. You will be dirt just like Casey.
Jeff
Jeff,
I am happy to report that since leaving ntcc I have a great job with great pay; my marriage and kids are great; and life has been wonderful. You should start a thread about success stories of people who left ntcc.
For those of you trapped in ntcc, there is a better life away from them, and better churches with better pastors.
..I thought bearing false witness was wrong in the Bible? I guess NTCC highlights that scripture with a black marker!
I have seen people in NTCC defend people that have left against the lies and rumors that were circling around. These people had first hand knowledge of what occurred, yet the Pastor will shout them down in a corner just to keep the truth from coming out. Then to top it off he will cower behind the pulpit, desecrate the very place God has called sacred...blast the people that left and the people that will tell the truth about what happened! Oh to put the "cherry on top" he say the people that are telling the truth...are GOSSIPING!!
Where's the God in that?
My Dad always said if you LIE about people...you don't fear God!
"NTCC is the ONLY church I know of, that when you leave you ARE burned. It's like being in the mob, or a gang-- once your IN you are not allowed to leave, or else..."
Brother Michael Corleone: Just when I thought I was out(of NTCC)... they pull me back in. -The Godfather
Pastor Tony Montana: I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. -Scarface
Pastor Tony Montana: In this country, you gotta make the money(tithe) first. Then when you get the money(tithe), you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women. -Scarface
Well, Donny Ridgeway told me once that after we left, someone inquired of RW what happened to us, and he replied that we left over "differences in salvation doctrine."
That was news to me; I had never discussed salvation doctrine with RW, and we left because of the nasty campaign he conducted to run us off. Apparently this was a subtle way of implying that I was some kind of heretic. Similarly nebulous accusations are often utilized by the leaders of NTCC to tar their opponents. Back when sending out "letters of disfellowship" was in vogue, the charges were always something vague but ominous: "conduct unbecoming of a minister," or "sowing discord among brethren." Our imaginations were thus encouraged to wild speculation regarding what sinister vices these miscreants (Good riddance to them, the lepers!) must have committed.
Here is an excerpt from a report prepared during the war by the United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler's psychological profile (sound familiar?):
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."
Casey asked: "has anybody else on here been lied about"
well, when i decided that i was not going to move to seattle and attend BS (pun intended) i was told by my brother that:
"you had a pepsi with the Devil"
and
"your listening to lies from your wife"
a. i dont drink pepsi
b. i never listen to my wife
so i guess they would be considered "lies"
t
if i remember correctly, its Angie who drinks pepsi, so maybe she has been having "a pepsi with the devil"
t
interesting that Satans beverage of choice is Pepsi- goooo Coke!!
it would probably have been a bit more convincing if he had stated
"a beer with the devil" or a "rum and coke with the devil"
You are right Jeff when you say that casey is a good natured kind of guy. rwd would just not like these kind of guys. rw would go on and on in conferences ranting that "good guys finish last"
I remember one time he ranted and went on and on putting down one of the ministers. I think it was mckay. He went on and on about how he was just a nice guy that he couldn't pastor a servicemen's home because he was just "too nice"
I remember his wife because I was sitting behind her and my heart was just weeping for her because I knew her love was being shattered
and there was nothing she could do.
I just wanted to embrace her and tell her that no matter what was said she knew what kind of guy her husband was and nothing else mattered.
I knew right then and there that they would not do that to my husband without them hearing from me.
It is quite telling that the guys that rwd wants in his ministry are those that are heartless and without feelings, they are there just for the numbers and the money.
It's all just like a sick little game.
I'm glad that in the real world
"good guys do finish at the top"
like Casey has done.
so, then davis knew exactly what he was doing when he promoted denis.
i know they lied about me. not sure exactly what was said but i saw a pastor who mentioned in the conversation on why he thinks I left.
no one knows why because i didn't speak to anyone.
God delivered me from that mess !
Casey,
I was lied about when I left the first time. Even though I left quietly without telling anyone why, it was said that I was confused...whatever that means.
Anyone want to offer a translation?
NS
Jim McKay was a good friend of mine, and someone I was in the Army with back in the early 80's. He's a great guy. His wife left ntcc, but Davis' wife was trying to get her to come back. I hope she failed. I talked to Jim briefly after I left, knowing that we would probably never see each other again, and have never spoken to him since. Another friendship ruined by ntcc.
Thank to Vic, I heard what they said about me. Diana T. said they came to Portland once looking for me. I wonder why?
Casey,
Do you have any idea why Sis McKay left? I have wondered for the longest time, just never asked.
I don't know why McKay's wife left. I never felt confortable asking. I wish Jim would leave.
We stepped down. And I antcipated staying in ntcc as a church member. I even went on the MSN ntcc church group. Gave a good explanation why we stepped down. Spoke with MK and Tanya on the phone and IM with Mike. Told them we were moving to another state. They seemed fine with that. I was still planning on attending a local Church. What I didn't know was my DH did not want to attend ntcc at all.
A few months into the move. IM with Mike K. again. He started his lie's. Ntcc Jargon,There must be something deeper going on. I think he said that because I started asking questions. Questions that I had for Many years. But was afraid to ask. I did feel more courage in asking after stepping down. He really had no answer's for me. He started telling me most rules are polcies! My DH did not leave because of my doubts. So there wasn't Anything Deeper!
ANON
"He started his lie's. Ntcc Jargon,There must be something deeper going on."
Psychology NTCC style!
Anonymous said..."Do you have any idea why Sis McKay left? I have wondered for the longest time, just never asked."
My wife said (she asked) Sis McKay left because Sis McKay said she was sick of the way everyone was treated.
If you have ever had the singular privilege of getting to know Sis. McKay you know she is the cream of the crop, as far as Christians go...this goes for Jim also.
I have found there is nothing she won't do for God, and not much she hasn't done for God...this goes for Jim also.
I really miss her. Rev. McKay was wise not getting rid of her; as NTCC had 'suggested.'
I can't begin to relate all the good I have found in Rev. and Sis. McKay during the 15 years I have know them, or all the ways they have enriched my life.
pdq
PDQ,
Didn't they pioneer the work in Junction City ?
NS
Hello everyone, I had been going to New Testament, and my family and I left the church back in Feb 09. Its sad to say that we have been going there almost 10 years, We are happy we left but the only thing that makes me mad is that they lie so much about us, such as we was bitter because we dident agree with the preaching,we feel he was was preaching by information instead of inspiration, just too much spritual abuse. I was was wondering how did yall go on with life, knowing they are lieing about you? Also how did you deal with seeing them out in about, and with them acting like they dont want to speak to you, or should I say avoid you?
Anon,
I am said that you have to deal with being lied about, because you left the church. Not sure how one can go on in their Christian walk and justify lying about people.
All I can say is you have to dust yourself off and do what is right by God. If some one in NTCC asks you why you left. Don't answer, or you will be accused of gossiping etc. If they ask you what church you go to, don't tell them or it will used as ammo later.
The best testimony is to show them how good God is in your life. Smile when you see them, even say Hi. I hope this helps
Anon!
...by the way...if a church lies about one thing,who's to say they aren't lying about everything.
Anon!
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